Parking Charge Notice TSP Car Park Managment Ltd

CeLe

Hello guys,

I need advice/help, what to do.

Got the PCN on private land,
actually on our own car parking bay which is (with number) connected only to our flat number, as well as our car/number plate.

We all have self-adhesive sticker permits with number, which is actually inside the front windscreen... Due to that our "self-adhesive" sticker, is everything but not "self-adhesive" anymore, unfortunately it comes off down on the driver seat some time after we left the car...

They give me the pcn, with followed reason:
"Not Displaying a Valid Permit"

After we appealed with picture proof and explain them that our car is every day and always on the same place since we moved in that flat, they declined.

Here is the answer:
Thank you for your email of appeal against Parking Charge Notice 0000

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that was issued by us to you in

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2017. The contractual signs displayed in the car park clearly state that a valid permit must be displayed in the WINDSCREEN clearly at all times, and at the date and time our officer visited the site this was not the case. The onus is on the driver to ensure the permit is clearly displayed in the windscreen before leaving the vehicle. We are not disputing it is YOUR bay but the signs in the car park are contractual and have to be adhered to by all. Our permits do not have glue on they are self-stick. Additional permits can be ordered via the website under the services section.

Unfortunately we can only base our decision on the rules of the signs and cannot change the rules for individuals as it would be unfair and unprofessional. As members of the IPC we have to be seen as being equal and fair to all and not giving favour to anybody.

In parking without displaying a valid permit and without the express permission of the operator, you have consented to the parking charge.

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons;

Not displaying a valid permit

A recent Supreme Court ruling (ParkingEye v Beavis) has confirmed that a Parking Charge issued on private land is enforceable and the Parking Charge does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

You now have a number of options from which to choose
1, Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days. Please note that at this time the discounted rate will no longer apply as you have appealed after the reduced rate period..
2"If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter." Please note if you lose your appeal with the IPC you will not be eligible to pay the reduced fee of £60.00 as the fine automatically increases to £100.00
3, If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Kind regards
APPEALS DEPARTMENT
For TSP Car Park Management Limited
Tel: 0844 846 7131


Advices?
What should we do?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Ignore them (NO trying IAS!) and dig out your AST or lease and any paperwork that came with the permit.

What does the lease or AST say about parking and rights to peaceful enjoyment of the property and outside access/rights of way/parking?

What does the permit bumf say (if anything) about £100 charge (specifically?). Nothing about £100? Thought not.

In parking without displaying a valid permit and without the express permission of the operator, you have consented to the parking charge.

No you haven't, but you might have to argue this in a court hearing (no biggie, honestly). Read this:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

That Blog explains the issues and case law. Look to prove your 'primacy of contract' for the bay.

Redx

and did they really use the word "fine" ? surely that is a no no anyway (in law)

not sure they are allowed to use an 0844 number either

best to get checking your lease and any other agreements etc due to what was said above and some of the court cases won by residents

how arrogant of them to just assume you have a contract regardless of any agreements of your own (aka JOPSON etc) , they havent read other recent court cases where companies have lost , so GLADSTONES WILL TAKE THEM TO THE CLEANERS , if and when they try it with this one

I also note that they havent informed you of all your choices , so here are 2 more

4) IGNORE them (although I suppose 3 covers that one)

5) only owe the money and pay it if a judge says so (their number 3) assumes that they will win in court - a VERY BIG assumption)

they have also assumed that the BEAVIS case applies here , it doesnt as he overstayed on a free car park where PE had a financial interest in the car park , this case is totally different

CeLe

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Ignore them (NO trying IAS!) and dig out your AST or lease and any paperwork that came with the permit.

What does the lease or AST say about parking and rights to peaceful enjoyment of the property and outside access/rights of way/parking?

What does the permit bumf say (if anything) about £100 charge (specifically?). Nothing about £100? Thought not.


No you haven't, but you might have to argue this in a court hearing (no biggie, honestly). Read this:

That Blog explains the issues and case law. Look to prove your 'primacy of contract' for the bay.

Hi,

thanks for your reply!

Just checked out everything we have:
1. Assured Shorthold Tenancy - over 13pages and not a single mention about the car park.
2. Personal Tenancy Application (from the agency) - in only one place we have mentioned our car plate number ("If you own a car, please give registration number").

When we signed the contract in agency for our flat we have included parking bay like everyone else on that private property.
We received car parking permit with our flat number as well as one more for guests "visitors" and thats all.

Their sign in car park says->

PARKING AT THIS LOCATION IS RESERVED FOR:
1. Vehicles fully displaying a valid Parking Permit and parked fully within the confines a marked bay.
2. Pre-Authorised vehicles parked fully within the confines of their pre-allocated space.

BY PARKING OR REMAINING AT THIS SITE OTHERWISE THAN IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ABOVE, YOU, THE DRIVER, ARE AGREEING TO THE FOLLOWING CONTRACTUAL TERMS:
You agree to pay a parking charge of £100 within 28days of issue.
This is reduced to £60 if paid within 14days.

Guys_Dad

If it is an AST, then I am assuming that the tenancy is from a leaseholder and my comments are based on this.

The primacy sequence in your case is Lease - PPC contract - your tenancy.

That means that you are "supremely" governed by what is in the leaseholder's lease and you will need a copy of that.

You can NOT be assigned any rights or variances that are not in the original lease. You, as a AST, inherit the rights of the leaseholder subject to any restrictions that they may impose on your AST.

For example, if the lease said "No BBQs on the balcony", yet your AST either was silent on that or said that Gas-fired BBQs were permitted, then that would be in breach of the lease and not permitted. Your beef would then be with your landlord.

So that is where you get your rights - the lease your landlord has.

Coupon-mad

When we signed the contract in agency for our flat we have included parking bay like everyone else on that private property.

OK so does your rent partly pay for the parking bay too and have you got that contract mentioning the bay, or the advert advertising the flat with parking bay?

No rush but you will need it for your defence if they try a small claim. The Parking Prankster blog I showed you, explains the issues and case law to rely on and we will help, if you need to defend. This is not something to worry about.

These aggressive ticketer PPC firms have no place in a residential car park, not needed.

CeLe

Guys_Dad wrote: »

If it is an AST, then I am assuming that the tenancy is from a leaseholder and my comments are based on this.

The primacy sequence in your case is Lease - PPC contract - your tenancy.

That means that you are "supremely" governed by what is in the leaseholder's lease and you will need a copy of that.

You can NOT be assigned any rights or variances that are not in the original lease. You, as a AST, inherit the rights of the leaseholder subject to any restrictions that they may impose on your AST.

For example, if the lease said "No BBQs on the balcony", yet your AST either was silent on that or said that Gas-fired BBQs were permitted, then that would be in breach of the lease and not permitted. Your beef would then be with your landlord.

So that is where you get your rights - the lease your landlord has.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

OK so does your rent partly pay for the parking bay too and have you got that contract mentioning the bay, or the advert advertising the flat with parking bay?

No rush but you will need it for your defence if they try a small claim. The Parking Prankster blog I showed you, explains the issues and case law to rely on and we will help, if you need to defend. This is not something to worry about.

These aggressive ticketer PPC firms have no place in a residential car park, not needed.

@Guys Dad
So whats you advice? Ask the ageny for a leaseholder's lease? As we do not have any kind of contacts with landlord!

@Coupon-mad
Not sure really!
We have included parking bay in our price for "flat" so we do not have to pay any extra money. Not sure if agency or landlord paying something on a monthly basis from our money if that make sense!?
All we have is adhesive parking permit for a car with flat-parking bay number (all parking bays have numbers on the asphalt as well). So actually you can park your car only on your flat/permit number bay.

And there is nothing about it on the "papper" in our AST contract.

So actually all we have is:
1. Contract to proof we are tenants from that flat number.
2. Proof that we are the car owners.
3. Parking permit with same number as our flat and parking bay.

Sounds totally incredibly to me,
because we are only allowed to be in that parking bay and car is parked every day in the same place.

Can they charge me only because permit wasn´t there on the windscreen (accidentally), because eveything else make no sense?!
Not sure if they leave the same PCN for every car, or this is only because of "not displaying valid permit".
What if I even wasn´t allowed to park there and if am on example someone random and not the tenant from that property? The PCN will be written on the same way or not?
Wonder if they have a clue that I am allowed to be parked there (reg number), or not!

What if we were on holidays for 2-3weeks and permit come off first day.
They are able to put the new PCN every 24hours. LOL

Coupon-mad

What if I even wasn´t allowed to park there and if am on example someone random and not the tenant from that property? The PCN will be written on the same way or not?

Exactly the same penalty - awful, isn't it?

Wonder if they have a clue that I am allowed to be parked there (reg number), or not!

Nope, they don't care. These firms exist to leach off people.

What if we were on holidays for 2-3weeks and permit come off first day.
They are able to put the new PCN every 24hours

Yes - and they would.

Try a complaint to the managing agents (not your letting agents). And if you know who your landlord is and are allowed to contact him/her, ask them if their lease means they OWN or have anything in writing allocating that space to them (and therefore you) without caveat or obligations about permits.

I helped someone defend one who found out his landlord owns the bay himself, under a Deed of Covenant, yet the agents had let a PPC loose to ticket in any bays...whether owned by leaseholders or not. So obviously the defence (still awaiting an outcome) in that case says that the PPC had no rights to charge as the landlord owns his bay outright and had granted the tenant the right to park under his Deed of Covenant.

Happens all too often. You need to find out from your Landlord if you possibly can, what his/her lease says about the right to park, because you can then rely upon that right in a defence. Your own AST is likely to be a lot more woolly than your landlord's own leasehold title document.

Do not pay or panic but you need now to start building up your defence.

Guys_Dad

@Guys Dad
So whats you advice? Ask the ageny for a leaseholder's lease? As we do not have any kind of contacts with landlord!

Ideally, yes. I would explain to MA saying that, as the rental contract is silent about parking t&c, you are seeking what the lease says.

Where you are disadvantaged over leaseholders - particularly those who have had PPCs imposed after they moved in - is that you were issued with a permit when you moved in and the MA may not be sympathetic to your plight. It can be argued that having the permit and displaying it was part of your tenancy agreement.

I have a friend who lived in a block where the landowners were the leaseholders who formed a management company. If the majority voted for a particular t&c to ba imposed - such as the banning of BBQs after a fire in the block occurred some 4 years ago - there was a clause that allowed the landowners and the MA to impose such t&c as the landowners wanted for good estate management.

The real answer to your question is Yes, they can try to charge you and only a court can make a decision. A number of decisions recently have come down on the side of the leaseholder, but it is truly in the lap of the Gods and the judge you get.

So best to assemble all the right ammunition and defences just in case.

CeLe

Maybe a bit silly question but am not sure who would be MA and how can I contact them?
Whats the chances they will actually go to the court if I ignore them after they declined my appeal?
Big?

Ian011

Redx wrote: »

not sure they are allowed to use an 0844 number either

Promoting a premium rate 084, 087 or 09 number without mentioning call costs alongside is a breach of Ofcom regulations.

By sending an invoice or penalty notice they are implying a contract exists between you and them. In such cases, usage of a premium rate 084, 087 or 09 number breaches regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.

This is, however, merely a side-show to the main issue - the details in the lease, etc, as mentioned by others above.