Orange - when should a default be marked satisfied?

theonecog

I am in my final few months of a DMP with Payplan and so have started taking steps to confirm balances with my creditors. I have been back and forth with Orange over the last few weeks to no avail. I was originally asking them to remove a default for £14 as a gesture of goodwill, to which I received a reply that credit files have to be an accurate representation of accounts. That's OK I thought, that was my mistake and it was worth a shot.

On looking into the account they noticed that I had "overpaid" on this account and one other defaulted account I had with them. I was initially happy to hear that they had written off the debt of the other account, until I realised that it was written off in February 2016, that I hadn't been notified of this at all and that they were still falsely reporting a balance to the CRA's that decreased every month by the amount allocated to them by Payplan. Details below:

Account 1:

Debt written off by Orange 10/03/2014
Marked satisfied 08/09/2014

Account 2:

Debt written off by Orange 02/2016
Marked satisfied 10/01/2017

As far as my understanding goes shouldn't these accounts be marked satisfied from the date the balance was wiped and set to 0 (when the debt was written off by Orange)?

I escalated this last week and have received this reply today:

"I would like to start by confirming, as Kelly has, that when a balance is written off, this simply means that we will no longer pursue the debt. Your credit report will only show the account to be settled, or satisfied, once the balance is paid. I can assure you that this is correct and there has been no failing with how we have recorded this information.

The information Kelly has provided has been confirmed by our credit queries team and has been clarified by her on a number of occasions. Once again, the information we have recorded on your credit report is correct and there are no amendments needed. Therefore, I am unable to expand on the information that has already been provided to you."

My point all along has been that surely if the balance was written off and set to 0 at a certain point in time then the balance was paid at that time and not whenever it came to Orange's attention to actually process the account properly?

I had a previous reply before I escalated which stated this:

"The details for XXXXXXXX are recorded correctly. When a debt is written off, this simply means that we will no longer chase it. However, the default will remain, and if payments are made, they will be accepted.

One of our credit underwriters has confirmed that they have settled this default on the day the last payment was received."

However they refunded me every single payment made on both accounts back to when the debts were written off and so surely that actually makes the last payments when the debts were written off by Orange?

Unfortunately I seem to have hit a brick wall here and after stating my case numerous times in the plainest of fashions and even showing them that they are contradicting their own guidelines and those surrounding defaults, I keep getting hit with the same contradictory statements.

Can anyone please advise whether I'm right in this situation and if so what the next steps I can take are please?

[Deleted User]

It sounds as if they are right. Writing off a debt is an accounting practice - it doesn't mean the customer has settled or satisfied the debt.

Why did they refund the later payments? I would have thought that carries the risk that the satisfied marker comes off again.

theonecog

They refunded the later payments because they said that I "overpaid" on the accounts because the balances were written off. They marked both accounts as settled before I was due to pay them off. I understand that writing off a debt is an accounting practice but if there is then no debt and so no balance is owed, according to Experian's guidelines "... it would be unfair to process personal data to record an outstanding balance on a default when the matter had been formally and finally concluded."

I can see that this is a grey area but am I right in saying that regardless of satisfied dates they should not have continuously incorrectly reported a balance to the CRA's?

theonecog

Some extra background, account 1 was paid monthly through Payplan until June 2016 because Orange still reported a balance to them, and account 2 was being paid up until this month again because Orange were still reporting a balance.

Sparx

Unless I'm missing something, EE (Orange) are correct surely... If a balance is 'written off' as they quite rightly stated, this means they will continue to report the balance. Just because it's written off, doesn't mean it will then show as settled or no balance. The debt still exists!

Written off simply means as mentioned already, they will not pursue you for the debt. If you choose to pay it off, fair enough, they will report to the CRAs still the balance and do so until you settle the account.

theonecog

If that was the case then why would they refund me to the dates that the debts were written off? If that simply means they won't chase me for the debt and the debt still exists, not as you say show as no balance, then why did they confirm that the accounts showed no balance on those dates, that the accounts then went into credit and refunded me everything paid since the debt was written off if as you say the debt still exists?

Some previous correspondence below that might help clear this up:

"You had not over paid on this account. The account showed a credit simply as the debt, which was £77.69 inc VAT, originally had been wrote off in February 2016, and each payment you made went towards the account, and showed a credit. However, as I confirmed you had overpaid, and refunded what was shown on the account, nothing further is owed as I have requested that the default is marked as settled."

Can see you see what I mean about confusing contradictory statements "You had not over paid on this account... as I confirmed you had overpaid"!

dieselv2

I'm confused at this story. From what I gather which could be wrong an advisor has thought the debt was credit and refunded it and then written off rest and closed as balance now shows 0. In terms of that you still made a payment on a certain which based on your paragraph on last post starts with "you had not overpaid this account". I think your in the right place in terms of credit file and they just hoping you be nice and pay whats owing.

theonecog

I understand the practice of writing off debts but if they have refunded me everything I have paid to them from February 2016 then surely the default wasn't satisfied this month when I last paid them (subsequently refunded) but when they accepted the balance was zero and that no debt was owed? It's unfortunately confusing me as account 1 was written off and subsequently marked as settled 3 months later in 2014 without any contact from me and I received a letter stating this and account 2 was apparently written off and not marked as satisfied until they have realised that they should have done the same for this account? I apologise for my misunderstanding in these matters but EE (Orange) haven't really made this clear as they refunded everything paid against account 1 from when it was marked settled but then have refunded everything on account 2 from when it was written off and by using that same logic settled if you can see what I mean?

Sparx

I'm going to go with an advisor/admin error. EE wrote off debt, advisor thought his meant on their system nothing was owed so you 'overpaid'. Took it upon himself to refund and request default be settled.

Win win for you I guess. You got the money back and they mark it settled if you're lucky.

theonecog

Dieselv2 I think that you are correct and that is possibly what has happened but it has been like getting blood from a stone with them and have received many mixed statements as you can see and it is more than a little confusing. I think that the advisor has made a mistake and refunded the credit balance and then request that the account be marked as settled but in doing that in my eyes at least then that makes the default satisfied date as February 2016 not January 2017. That was my latest point to them that whilst the account has been settled in January 2017 if they have refunded me until February 2016 then this should be the default satisfied date, or am I wrong in thinking this?

theonecog

Dieselv2 apologies I'm writing replies slower than you! I have asked for clarification on that and unfortunately was met with the reply in my first post. I have said in my latest email that I will refer it to the ombudsman, but for clarification which ombudsman do I refer it to, communications?