Smart meter incompatibility and chaos

fredandwilma

Deleted_User wrote: »

Thanks f&w, my smart meter is currently providing E.ON with automated monthly readings. The problem is that I'm considering moving away from E.ON and I'm told this will nullify the smart part of my meter. Manually reading my meters is very difficult. So, unless my indoor display can easily show me meter readings for passing to the new supplier, I'll be catapulted back into Bedrock with energy bills based on estimated readings and meter men arriving annually on a dinosaur. Even the rewards offered by Halifax won't compensate for this.

Sorry picks, I thought you were looking for a final reading, to switch.

Without going in to the pro's and con's / politics of the smart meter system, it's just something you will have to take into consideration when switching suppliers, unfortunately.

It's not so bad, here in Bedrock.

Just posted by on another thread by Malc:-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72019974#Comment_72019974

Pincher wrote: »

Have a good rant, vent your spleen, there, there, there.

Don't forget, we are paying for this fiasco.

Go on, scream. :eek:

As consumers, we pay for everything, including the collapse of suppliers such as GB Energy.

tgon

Without a common standard the whole smart meter rollout vs comsumer choice seems a bit wasteful and confusing to me. If we're using the Flintstone analogy then Ofgem must be Fred's car, good to have but needs a lot of work to get it to go anywhere.

System

tgon wrote: »

Without a common standard the whole smart meter rollout vs comsumer choice seems a bit wasteful and confusing to me. If we're using the Flintstone analogy then Ofgem must be Fred's car, good to have but needs a lot of work to get it to go anywhere.

There is a common standard called SMETS2 (Smart Metering Technical Specifications) which is being implemented now. The document runs to over 800 pages!!

Think of it in a similar way to Broadband. The standard in the UK for FTTC is VDSL2. Provided I buy/use equipment that meets this technical standard, then I will achieve a broadband connection. I happen to use a Fritz!Box; BT supplies Huawie/ECI, and my ISP promotes TP Link. The instructions for using these varying types of equipment are all different.

It follows that it matters not where your smart meter/s were built and by whom provided they are fully SMETS2 compliant.

The early roll out phase used the previous technical standard SMETS1 which based on experience has evolved into SMETS2. Suppliers have now been told - somewhat late in the day in my opinion - to put forward proposals to update SMETS 1 meters to SMETS 2 compliance.

It is also now being mooted that in addition to the £12Bn that we are all paying for this project, all smart meter comms units will have to be upgraded by 2015 when the 2G network is disabled. This will be an extra cost to consumers.

SpotlandRules

Deleted_User wrote: »

Thanks f&w, my smart meter is currently providing E.ON with automated monthly readings. The problem is that I'm considering moving away from E.ON and I'm told this will nullify the smart part of my meter. Manually reading my meters is very difficult. So, unless my indoor display can easily show me meter readings for passing to the new supplier, I'll be catapulted back into Bedrock with energy bills based on estimated readings and meter men arriving annually on a dinosaur. Even the rewards offered by Halifax won't compensate for this.

Does your IHD show gas usage in units, as mine (from OVO) only shows total gas usage in kwh. You will have to physically get the reading from the gas meter, for your units reading.

[Deleted User]

Hengus wrote: »

There is a common standard called SMETS2 (Smart Metering Technical Specifications) which is being implemented now. The document runs to over 800 pages!!

SMETS2 sounds a great step forward. The problem is the chaotic way in which the smart metering has been rolled out with many of us being tied down by incompatibility of our old style smart meters. What a shambles when we find out after having been propelled into the 21st Century that we might face relegation back to the Flintsone era just by following the pressure claiming it just takes a few minutes to complete an energy switch. I consider MSE should temper its good news of the save hundreds £ and switch in a few minutes message by alerting smart meter users of possible bad news.

It is also now being mooted that in addition to the £12Bn that we are all paying for this project, all smart meter comms units will have to be upgraded by 2015 when the 2G network is disabled. This will be an extra cost to consumers.

They had best move fast to upgrade by 2015!

System

Deleted_User wrote: »

SMETS2 sounds a great step forward. The problem is the chaotic way in which the smart metering has been rolled out with many of us being tied down by incompatibility of our old style smart meters. What a shambles when we find out after having been propelled into the 21st Century that we might face relegation back to the Flintsone era just by following the pressure claiming it just takes a few minutes to complete an energy switch. I consider MSE should temper its good news of the save hundreds £ and switch in a few minutes message by alerting smart meter users of possible bad news.
They had best move fast to upgrade by 2015!

Oops - 2025. Thanks for the correction.

Raxiel

Deleted_User wrote: »

SMETS2 sounds a great step forward. The problem is the chaotic way in which the smart metering has been rolled out with many of us being tied down by incompatibility of our old style smart meters.

I think you'll find you're preaching to the choir about that on this board.

What a shambles when we find out after having been propelled into the 21st Century that we might face relegation back to the Flintsone era just by following the pressure claiming it just takes a few minutes to complete an energy switch. I consider MSE should temper its good news of the save hundreds £ and switch in a few minutes message by alerting smart meter users of possible bad news.

Its not like you'll need to take a stone prepay slab to the newsagent to have a Pterodactyl punch a hole in it with its teeth.:D

But seriously, while it's irritating to loose smart functionality once you have it, you're no worse off than if you'd never got a smart meter (harder to read display notwithstanding). That doesn't change the fact that sticking with your current supplier might cost you a lot more than switching to someone else.

Rather than Money Saving Expert toning down its Money Saving advice I think its down to the homeowner to make sure they fully understand the implications of getting dumb meters replaced with smart meters. And I'm not having a go at you - I include myself at that.

I had smarts fitted at the end of last year, thinking 'oh they must have the meters that work with any supplier by now' without actually checking that was the case. I saw the warning about how I 'might not be able to keep the smart functionality if I switch' but incorrectly assumed they just meant if I move to some tiny, no-frills supplier operating out of a garden shed. And I'm kicking myself for not doing the proper research (I had other reasons to get it switched so it wasn't a total waste but that's by-the-by)

The reason I even registered an account here was because the supplier I've been with for several years, the same supplier that fitted my smart meters jacked the price up this year by 40%. I'm moving (to a supplier I found out about on this board) and loosing smart functionality, but the alternative is to pay £20 a month more. I'd much rather stick my head in the meter cupboard once a month.:money:

mac.d

Hengus wrote: »

The early roll out phase used the previous technical standard SMETS1 which based on experience has evolved into SMETS2. Suppliers have now been told - somewhat late in the day in my opinion - to put forward proposals to update SMETS 1 meters to SMETS 2 compliance.

It is also now being mooted that in addition to the £12Bn that we are all paying for this project, all smart meter comms units will have to be upgraded by 2015 when the 2G network is disabled. This will be an extra cost to consumers.

It's been over four years since I worked for a utility company, and they'd been talking about the 10-year roll-out of smart meters that could be read by all different suppliers for quite a while already (I'm sure it was originally supposed to start and finish even earlier, 2012-2022?). It seems crazy that they've went ahead without making them a standard format, and don't tell me the SMETS 2 meters will end up being installed still using the 2G network?

System

mac.d wrote: »

It's been over four years since I worked for a utility company, and they'd been talking about the 10-year roll-out of smart meters that could be read by all different suppliers for quite a while already (I'm sure it was originally supposed to start and finish even earlier, 2012-2022?). It seems crazy that they've went ahead without making them a standard format, and don't tell me the SMETS 2 meters will end up being installed still using the 2G network?

From expert evidence given to the HoC's Science and Technology Committee last year:

Nick Hunn

More scrutiny also needs to be given to the choice of wide area wireless connection used to return data from the smart meters. This is implemented within the comms hub and is currently specified as GPRS / SMS for two of the three CSP contracts. However, the UK’s GPRS networks are scheduled to be turned off by 2026 at the latest. Contracts for both of the regions using GPRS were won by Telefonica, who are being acquired by Hutchinson. Given that Hutchinson has no 2G network (which is what is used for GPRS) they will have little stomach for maintaining spectrum which could be profitably refarmed for use as 4G or 5G. If smart meters are to remain operational after 2026, then all of the comms hubs in these areas will need to be replaced by the start of 2026. This implies an additional cost of around £2 billion (split between new hardware and installation costs) between 2020 and the end of 2025. This should be added to the program cost as it cannot be avoided if the meters are not to become stranded assets.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Deleted_User wrote: »

I have had a smart meter with E.ON for a number of years and it works fine. When it was installed E.ON told me that, while the meter belongs to them, if I ever changed supplier, the major suppliers subscribe to an information interchange scheme and meter readings would be automatically passed to them.

Following lobbying from them, the Cheap Energy Club is pressing me to change supplier. The good news is that I can potentially save money by switching. The bad news is that many of the suppliers recommended by Cheap Energy Club don't do smart meters at all. Even those who do, eg Scottish Power, say their smart meter technology is different from mine and I may have to wait until 2020 before I could rejoin the 21st century. So it seems if I want to switch I'd have to step back into the Flintstones era and revert to the scourge of meter readers visiting and estimated bills.

What kind of nonsense is this where it seems every energy supplier has a different system and strategy for smart metering in a totally chaotic system of incompatible technology? Why doesn't Cheap Energy Club make any reference to the fact that switching customers possibly have to revert back to the Flintstones era?

Hello picks and sorry you're thinking of leaving.

As you say, at the moment, changing supplier with your particular meter will more than likely mean you'll lose some of the smart features. This includes the ability to send readings remotely and will probably mean having to read the meter manually. Also, the display will no longer show usage in pounds and pence although they'll continue to give this in kWh.

Being able to change supplier without losing smart capability is something the industry has been working on for quite a time now. A centralised database looked after by the Data Communications Company (DCC) is being set up to look after the Smart network for all suppliers. They'll pass readings to the current supplier. Overall, the aim is for customers to be able to switch supplier without losing smart capability. Not sure, though, when it'll be fully up and running all over the country. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, we're also looking to introduce a new type of meter (SMETS2) later this year. This will help too.

Totally understand, these developments are of little use to you at this moment in time but will help going forward.

Deleted_User wrote: »

I too have an indoor unit linked to my E.ON smart meter, but I'm not aware that I can take meter readings from it. Can you please identify the precise model of your indoor unit and explain in detail where I can find the meter readings? Certainly E.ON appear to be unaware as I've spent several hours today speaking to E.ON about my problem.

The difficulty is that my gas meter is high up in the garage and pretty inaccessible to read the screen without risking injury by clambering up. The electricity meter is at the back of a cupboard almost at ground level and almost impossible to read. E.ON agree that to make reading accessible to me the meters would need to be moved to a more user-friendly place, but they refuse to do it saying I'll have to negotiate this with my next provider. If, as you say, the indoor unit provides meter readings why haven't E.ON suggested I use that?

Your Chameleon Energy Display is a type we used a while back. These have been replaced with the Ecometer. As fredandwilma have mentioned, the Chameleon doesn't show meter readings but the Ecometer does. Again, as it's not possible to replace just the display, this is of no help to you. If I might explain.

The electricity meter is the hub of the operation. It stores, sends and receives information. The gas meter sends readings to the electricity meter and the electricity meter sends information to the Energy Display and back to us. All three units are linked together so it's not possible to replace the existing display with a later one without also changing the whole set up.

As the meters aren't faulty, we wouldn't look to change them at this point even though you're struggling to read them. Part of the smart meter project is to take away the need for customers to read their own meters so they don't have to struggle. As the meters are working fine and sending us readings we've no need to change them or bother you for them.

I appreciate, switching changes the situation but this will be for the new supplier to sort. They might even look to fit their own meters. Depends on the supplier. I can't speak for other suppliers but, where we take over smart meters in similar circumstances and the customer is on our Priority Services Register and noted as struggling to take readings, we can arrange for the meters to be read each quarter.

Deleted_User wrote: »

Thanks for the information although I can't locate it on E.ONs website. I raised this with E.ON but their front-line staff had never heard of SMETS1/2 either. Only after a lengthy discussion and several telephone calls did they finally came back confirming what you have have said. They certainly couldn't give me any estimated date for commencement of roll out. So there's a lot of staff education is still required at E.ON.

I'm sorry you've had so many difficulties talking to our advisors about this. We've specialist Smart Teams who deal exclusively with all things smart. It's always best to talk to these teams (contact details are on our website). I suspect you might've been talking to our general customer facing advisors who don't have as much in depth smart knowledge. Guessing though.

Sorry I can't offer much in the way of positive advice picks.

Malc