Excel BW again

Lamilad

She said the next step is getting a warrant to take goods!

Sounds like they've issued a CCJ against you. Have you ignored court papers?

Start your own thread then we can advise you without getting mixed up with the posts relevant to this thread

claretmad62

Hi, Ive just spoken to the Skipton Court about being a Lay Rep for my wife during the hearing. She told me that unless I am " a solicitor" I cannot do this and therefore would not have the ROA. I can go in as a MKenzie Friend, but offer advice only and cannot address the court directly. I think I may have mis-understood exactly what I was entitled to do. The issue here is, my wife will not be able to cope with the stresses of this...any advice ? Do I need to write to the Court asking for MF ? Thrown a bit of a spanner in the works !

waamo

They told you wrong. https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27/pd_part27

You are entitled to act as a lay rep. Print that off and take it with you.

Lamilad

claretmad62 wrote: »

Hi, Ive just spoken to the Skipton Court about being a Lay Rep for my wife during the hearing. She told me that unless I am " a solicitor" I cannot do this and therefore would not have the ROA. I can go in as a MKenzie Friend, but offer advice only and cannot address the court directly. I think I may have mis-understood exactly what I was entitled to do. The issue here is, my wife will not be able to cope with the stresses of this...any advice ? Do I need to write to the Court asking for MF ? Thrown a bit of a spanner in the works !

That's ridiculous and blatantly wrong. Of course you can lay rep. Why don't you make your request again by email attaching a copy of the lay rep document.

Perhaps Bargepole or LoC can advise further

claretmad62

I thought it was, the young lady was very matter of fact even though I was reading off a website as I spoke to her. As my wife is clearly attending the hearing, why wouldn't I have ROA....to suggest that I need to be a Legal Professional to be able to speak on her behalf seems bizarre.

System

Do I need to write to the Court asking for MF ? Thrown a bit of a spanner in the works !

Go along. Tell the usher you are there as a McKenzie. The judge will want to ask your wife questions anyway and if she continually refers to you, it is more than likely you'll be allowed to address the court.

Or you can say at the beginning that you it would help the court if you could address the matter in hand to speed up the case. You can add that you understand the court wants the matter to be over quickly and unqualified people don't necessarily have Rights of Audience .... which is why you wife wants to know about the person appearing for the claimant.

Or you can rock up all bolshie with the Lay Rep paperwork and p**s them off.

claretmad62

IamE......for my own sanity I will email the document waamo kindly linked to the court, explaining my intentions...and hope the judge excepts this.

Loadsofchildren123

You don't have to give pre-notice of an intention to appear by a Lay Rep.


A few years ago the amin staff at the courts all knew the court rules and were trained. Not any more. Courts are now staffed by many people who are untrained and haven't got a clue. This girl got it wrong, don't panic. In non-small claims you have to have permission for a Lay Rep. In small claims you don't, it's an automatic right to have a lay rep and no-one can deny your wife this right.


Look at Practice Direction 27 - this applies exclusively to small claims. here's the link - print it out and take it with you.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27/pd_part27


Representation at a hearing

3.1 In this paragraph:
(1) a lawyer means a barrister, a solicitor or a legal executive employed by a solicitor, and
(2) a lay representative means any other person.
3.2
(1) A party may present his own case at a hearing or a lawyer or lay representative may present it for him.
(2) The Lay Representatives (Right of Audience) Order 1999 provides that a lay representative may not exercise any right of audience:–
(a) where his client does not attend the hearing;
(b) at any stage after judgment; or
(c) on any appeal brought against any decision made by the district judge in the proceedings.

2(b)/(c) are irrelevant, it's 2(a) that applies - you can only lay rep if your wife is present with you.

A McKenzie Friend is different. They are a person who is allowed in to sit next to you and to give you general assistance (eg to pass you the correct piece of paper that you want to show the judge, or by passing you notes reminding you of things to say). They are not allowed to speak for you.

Sometimes where there is no automatic right or permission to use a lay rep (ie in a non-small claims court case) and a person uses a McK Friend the judge ends up caving in and allowing the McK F to speak.

You don't need to be side tracked by the McK F issue. Your wife has an absolute right to have a lay rep as long as she is there as well.


Print off PD 27 and take it with you as evidence that you are allowed to have a lay rep

Loadsofchildren123

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/370354/response/927680/attach/3/uksi%2019991225%20en.pdf

And it is probably sensible to print off the Lay Rep (Rights of Audience) Order as well and to take that with you - here it is

Loadsofchildren123

claretmad62 wrote: »

I.... will email the document ... explaining my intentions...and hope the judge excepts this.

Judge doesn't have to accept it. It is your wife's absolute right.


I have read before of the usher saying at first that you can't have a lay rep, but always shutting up when (s)he's given a copy of the relevant provisions (PD 27/Lay Rep Order)