UKPC appeal, not in bay - PoPLA?

Equilibriate

Hi, first of all I'd like to thank all of you in advance, not just for any help to me but also all the help you guys give people here!

A parking charge was received on 12/11/2016 at the Merryhill shopping center from UKPC for "not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space".
An appeal letter was sent to UKPC about day 26. (also tried complaining to center but no reply)
I got a NTK letter on 12/1/2017.
I can't see a PoPLA code anywhere on this NTK letter so how do I get one if that is the next stage? Sorry for being confused about this but I read the newbie thread and some others but still aren't sure on how to proceed.

Thanks,
Eq.

Fruitcake

If those dates are correct, then the scammers have failed to meet the POFA 2012 and cannot hold the keeper liable.

Complain to the DVLA and BPA that the keeper appealed to the scammers but they have failed to provide a PoPLA code. First however check that it is not hidden somewhere in the NTK. You are looking for a ten digit code, but it may not be easily identifiable as such from the text.

Do not contact the scammers until you get the code. If they send anything without providing one, complain again to the DVLA and BPA.
If they ask for more info or the driver's identity, complain to the DVLA and BPA.

catfunt

Notice to keeper? Or a reply to the appeal you sent?

If purely a Notice to Keeper with no mention of any appeal you sent and they refused, then you won't have a POPLA code on there.

Coupon-mad

An appeal letter was sent to UKPC about day 26.

Not a letter, surely not by post, giving them the chance to pretend it never arrived? Please tell us you actually submitted the appeal as recommended, not by post but online to UKPC using their webpage, calling yourself the keeper (and kept a screenshot)?

If not, then do exactly that now, in response to the NTK, you have a second chance to appeal as keeper so use it (online) no flimsy letters to UKPC (a bunch of nasty ex-clampers). We hope you didn't reveal the driver in the 'letter'? DO NOT SAY WHO WAS DRIVING.

Equilibriate

OK sorry maybe I should have been a little clearer!

Ticket received on 12-11-16
Appealed through their website on 9-12-16 (so 27 days after?) and received confirmation.
Received a letter from UKPC dated 12-1-17 Re: Notice to Keeper.

I modified a template appeal from here and didn't say who was driving and it was screenshotted.
I did assume this letter was a response to the appeal but actually reading again it doesn't mention an appeal at all. It just states that they don't know who was driving and for me "to pay the parking charge or provide us with the name and current address of the driver". Also if not paid within 28 days will be passed on to debt recovery.
There isn't a 10 digit code on there but if this isn't an appeal response there wouldn't be?
So should I do as Fruitcake says and not contact them again or as Coupon-mad says appeal again?


Also I didn't add it to the appeal but where the car was parked was in fact a bay previously but the markings had been changed at some point. The old lines are still visable and other "real" lines very close to this are just as faded as the old "unreal" lines. I have photos of this. So should I have mentioned this or should I in future?

Again thanks,
Eq

Umkomaas

Standard UKPC modus op. After receipt of your initial appeal they send a fishing letter trying to get you to identify the driver. Do not respond to this. Around day 35 after your initial appeal they will reject it and send you a POPLA code.

Also if not paid within 28 days will be passed on to debt recovery.

No big deal. Debt collectors are powerless. All they do is send 'threatening' letters, they can't instigate court claims, they are not 'The Sheriffs', they won't turn up on your doorstep.

Also I didn't add it to the appeal but where the car was parked was in fact a bay previously but the markings had been changed at some point. The old lines are still visable and other "real" lines very close to this are just as faded as the old "unreal" lines. I have photos of this. So should I have mentioned this or should I in future?

Wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. The initial appeal almost never results in a cancellation, it's designed to hook a POPLA code. The above may come in useful later - keep this type of powder dry for POPLA.

The_Deep

This is a well known scammer, they will try all sorts of stuff, even falsifying the times on photographs, Treat the with the respect they deserve.

• 
  UKPC are former clampers who have been involved in quite a number of sordid scams, for example
  
  Hull Trading Standards took them to court on 15 counts of fraud. UKPC won all but one, but only because they had a better lawyer, a Q.C. If I recall correctly
  
  http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=63597
  
  They were bested by a Winchester barrister
  http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**
  
  They were involved in a large scale scam which resulted in a DVLA suspension
  
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html
  
  And then of course there was Tracey Kiss
  
  http://www.tracykiss.com/product-reviews/my-ukpc-parking-charge/

• .

Equilibriate

The_Deep wrote: »

• 
  UKPC are former clampers who have been involved in quite a number of sordid scams, for example
  
  Hull Trading Standards took them to court on 15 counts of fraud. UKPC won all but one, but only because they had a better lawyer, a Q.C. If I recall correctly
  
  
  They were bested by a Winchester barrister
  
  They were involved in a large scale scam which resulted in a DVLA suspension
  
  And then of course there was Tracey Kiss
  

• .

Very interesting and enlightening.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. The initial appeal almost never results in a cancellation, it's designed to hook a POPLA code. The above may come in useful later - keep this type of powder dry for POPLA.

This was the impression I got from the initial research, hopefully it will come in useful at PoPLA stage then.

Thanks for the responses. Waiting for the PoPLA code then!

EDIT: I just looked at the days and it was 35 days from initial appeal on the 13-1-17 and it's now 51 days from their response of receiving the appeal. So have they left it too long? And how long should I wait before doing anything or do nothing if I don't get any more correspondence?

Umkomaas

EDIT: I just looked at the days and it was 35 days from initial appeal on the 13-1-17 and it's now 51 days from their response of receiving the appeal. So have they left it too long? And how long should I wait before doing anything or do nothing if I don't get any more correspondence?

Strong complaint to the BPA - failure to comply with their 'effectively binding' (use those words, because the Supreme Court considered it to be so) Code of Practice.

aos@britishparking.co.uk

Copy in David Dunford at the DVLA for good measure.

david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Equilibriate

I think I've messed up by not noticing the email that responded to my appeal. It came on the 10th of January so it's been over a month now! Is it too long and should I just pay what they are asking?
Thanks

Fruitcake

Equilibriate wrote: »

I think I've messed up by not noticing the email that responded to my appeal. It came on the 10th of January so it's been over a month now! Is it too long and should I just pay what they are asking?
Thanks

No you most definitely shouldn't pay. Is there a PoPLA code in the email? If so try it to see if it still works, then knock up a quick appeal using the template appeal points in post 3 of the NEWBIEs thread.

Even if the code doesn't work and is out of time, send it in anyway but quote the Alternative Dispute Regulations Act 2015 that states ADR must be available for not less than 1 year.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/542/schedule/3/paragraph/13/made

Grounds to refuse to deal with a dispute
13.The body may only refuse to deal with a domestic dispute or a cross-border dispute which it is competent to deal with on one of the following grounds—
(a)
prior to submitting the complaint to the body, the consumer has not attempted to contact the trader concerned in order to discuss the consumer’s complaint and sought, as a first step, to resolve the matter directly with the trader;
(b)
the dispute is frivolous or vexatious;
(c)
the dispute is being, or has been previously, considered by another ADR entity or by a court;
(d)
the value of the claim falls below or above the monetary thresholds set by the body;
(e)
the consumer has not submitted the complaint to the body within the time period specified by the body, provided that such time period is not less than 12 months from the date upon which the trader has given notice to the consumer that the trader is unable to resolve the complaint with the consumer;
(f)
dealing with such a type of dispute would seriously impair the effective operation of the body.



Since none of the above apply, The UK Government requires PoPLA to consider the appeal.