Relying on child support

FBaby

I agree with you totally that there are many scenarios my concern is mainly only for those NRP's on low incomes. RP,s on low incomes get state assistance.

The problem is, whatever rule is applied will have a negative impact on either the NRP, the RP, the tax payer or the child, and I can't see how there could be different rules depending on each situation.

An RP on low income will be better off with childcare because they will get tax credits, however, the threshold by which cost of childcare is not high enough whilst income is, mean that quite a number of single nr will be entitled to none or very little. Ie, earn £35K, pay £350 in childcare and I don't think you'll be entitled to anything. If you are in the South, add £600-800 in rental/mortgage payment, take away pension deduction, travel expenses, and you are not left with a lot of disposal income.

determined_new_ms

I have custody of my gd and over the last 6 months my dd has been giving me £10 pw towards her maintenance. We live quite a frugal and simple life so I put this and her cb into savings. I use about 1/2 of her cb each month on any items she needs or activities she does and save the rest. I've been saving her cb like this for about a year. We've organised our life so if she doesn't pay it it doesn't cause any problems, while it's right and proper it can be taken away at any time and then cause ill feelings so I've decided to remove that from our life. I never rely on it, I never add it into our daily life. Seems simplier.

When my kids were young their father refused to pay maintenance and it caused me so much anger and resentment that now I'd rather not have that complication!

Sambella

determined_new_ms wrote: »

I have custody of my gd and over the last 6 months my dd has been giving me £10 pw towards her maintenance. We live quite a frugal and simple life so I put this and her cb into savings. I use about 1/2 of her cb each month on any items she needs or activities she does and save the rest. I've been saving her cb like this for about a year. We've organised our life so if she doesn't pay it it doesn't cause any problems, while it's right and proper it can be taken away at any time and then cause ill feelings so I've decided to remove that from our life. I never rely on it, I never add it into our daily life. Seems simplier.

When my kids were young their father refused to pay maintenance and it caused me so much anger and resentment that now I'd rather not have that complication!

In the case of the example above the RP gets £807 per month from the state/NRP. Do they even need to dip into their own wages to cover child costs?

The common cry from parents on benefits is that they are in poverty and the NRP doesn't meet half the costs. This doesn't really ring true when you lol at this example as by far the biggest contributor is the state.

Now some parents on benefits do struggle if they aren't working but they still get child tax credits and possibly maintenance so again the bulk of child costs are met by others

I too did not get any maintenance but I did get tax credits etc so I managed just fine. When my children's left school and tax credits stopped ( my full time wage was less than wage +benefits) that took some adjusting to so adjust I did. It also kind of shows that I myself became reliant on these tax credits for some of my own costs.

I never actually applied for child maintenance, eventually the CSA got round to assessing my ex and by that time he had two kids with someone else (now 3). For years I got a letter each year from CSA saying he had to pay £0.00.

I was never angry about this as I was happy to be out of the marriage and I had enough to live on anyway. What used to anger me a little was knowing that his resident kids got lots of money spent on them at Xmas and my kids mostly just got £20 each from him. Once in a while they got £50 each for Xmas. Never more than that. bitterness and anger would do me more harm than him so I didn't bother with all that lol.

Tammykitty

jamiehelsinki wrote: »

To add to what you say , I had my daughter 2 nights per week in which time I payed for her food, treats etc so that cancels out 2 nights my ex had her each week.

That leaves 3 nights per week my ex had my daughter more than myself.

My ex received about 20 per week child benefit plus my payment of 45. So all being equal the csa calculator must assume my ex was paying out 110 to care for my daughter for those 3 days per week if you assume a fair calculation of she was paying out as much as myself (45)to cover those extra 3 days.

I know there are the extras like Christmas, birthdays, clothes, holidays etc but I had these costs to cover as well.

This is where the system falls down massively, it works for absent parents it doesn't work for shared care.


I have always said child support should actually be calculated for both parents when the child is overnight with both parents.


Lets assume both parents make £1500 a month


NRP - CS due (0.15 * 1500) = £225
(payable for the 5 nights he doesn't have care) * 5/7 = £161


RP - CS due for 2 nights (0.15 * 1500 * 2/7) = £65


Allowing for the fact that the RP is usually responsible for things like school uniforms, lunches etc. This could be factored into the calculation by a quick calculation. (Ie - The first £50 a month the RP "owes" is disreagarded)


In this case the CS due by the NRP would be £161 - (65 -50) - £146 instead of the full £161.


The supposed point of the system (and the reason for the no maximum cap) is that if the parents were still together the child would get the benefit of the NRP's income at all times.


The fact that the system doesn't recognize shared care can be the reason many NRP relationships with their children breakdown.


If you were a child and the RP had a nice house, money for lovely days out, all the latest gadgets, nice foor etc, would you want to go and stay with the NRP in their 1 bedroom flat where they can only afford to feed you cheap food and don't have the money for even a bus fare to take you for a walk in the park?


NRP with shared care of their children, should also be exempt from the bedroom tax, and if private renting should be allowed more than just the shared room rate.

Sambella

Tammykitty wrote: »

This is where the system falls down massively, it works for absent parents it doesn't work for shared care.

I don't think it works out for the NRP most of the time


I have always said child support should actually be calculated for both parents when the child is overnight with both parents.


Lets assume both parents make £1500 a month


NRP - CS due (0.15 * 1500) = £225
(payable for the 5 nights he doesn't have care) * 5/7 = £161


RP - CS due for 2 nights (0.15 * 1500 * 2/7) = £65

This seems a fairer idea than at present. Both parents have to pay the other something.


Allowing for the fact that the RP is usually responsible for things like school uniforms, lunches etc. This could be factored into the calculation by a quick calculation. (Ie - The first £50 a month the RP "owes" is disreagarded)

Don't agree with this as the maintenance should cover this unless the RP also gives the NRP something for his costs ,say oetrol for pickups.

Besides if the RP uses the maintenance to pay for lunches or a school trip and NRP then gives the RP gives her half isn't he effectively paying for it all?


In this case the CS due by the NRP would be £161 - (65 -50) - £146 instead of the full £161.


The supposed point of the system (and the reason for the no maximum cap) is that if the parents were still together the child would get the benefit of the NRP's income at all times.

But alas they are not together and the NRP now has costs he didn't have whilst at home so it's a bit unrealistic to live like before.

Kids are more adaptable than adults though I tell you that lol


The fact that the system doesn't recognize shared care can be the reason many NRP relationships with their children breakdown.


If you were a child and the RP had a nice house, money for lovely days out, all the latest gadgets, nice foor etc, would you want to go and stay with the NRP in their 1 bedroom flat where they can only afford to feed you cheap food and don't have the money for even a bus fare to take you for a walk in the park?


NRP with shared care of their children, should also be exempt from the bedroom tax, and if private renting should be allowed more than just the shared room rate.

I've inserted comments above, not sure if I've done this correctly lol

CrawleyGirl

I'm a single parent and have put myself in a position where if my ex stops paying maintenance, we'd be ok.

He pays it every month and its a good sum because he's on a good wage. But then i supported him to progress his career so he could earn a good salary.

However, for my own piece of mind, i need to know that if something happened and he stopped paying it, the kids and i would be ok. We'd probably have a lower quality of life, but we'd be ok.

I'm actually in the process of downsizing and halving my mortgage to do this.

Sambella

CrawleyGirl wrote: »

I'm a single parent and have put myself in a position where if my ex stops paying maintenance, we'd be ok.

He pays it every month and its a good sum because he's on a good wage. But then i supported him to progress his career so he could earn a good salary.

However, for my own piece of mind, i need to know that if something happened and he stopped paying it, the kids and i would be ok. We'd probably have a lower quality of life, but we'd be ok.

I'm actually in the process of downsizing and halving my mortgage to do this.

That's a very sensible thing to do. Well done.

It is of concern that RP 's,when the kids leave education, stand to lose several hundred pounds per month when maintenance and/or benefits stops so it would be very wise for them to prepare. The longer they get it for the harder it will be to adapt.

Some like yourself will adjust their cost of living, some will seek to earn more as time goes by or marry again and others are just complacent about it not realising what's ahead.

HoneyNutLoop

Just to correct an error that keeps being repeated through this thread - there is a cap.

For the 2003 net pay scheme, the max net income on which child maintenance is calculated is capped at £3000 a week, producing caps of £450 a week maintenance for 1 child, £600 a week for 2 children and £750 a week for 3 or more children.

For the newer 2012 gross pay scheme, the max gross income on which child maintenance is calculated is also capped at £3000 a week, producing caps of £294 a week maintenance for 1 child, £392 a week for 2 children and £482 a week for 3 or more children.

copperclock

Sambella wrote: »

What you are implying is that if he pays you £300 - £400 per month which you use for the childcare costs that you are spending from your own wages MORE than this each and every month on your kids then there is family allowance .

The ex also has costs when the children are with him, do you match this spending as well?

Childcare usually stops when the kids become teens and can stay at home by themselves yet the ex continues paying until they are 18+ So when childcare stops will you be spending close to £800 each and every month on the kids?

Somehow I think not.

The only time I would have spent hundreds a month on my kids would have been Xmas. Uniforms are once a year with the odd replacement in between and school trips are not monthly.

I'm not the poster you asked this of, but I don't have any childcare and I estimate I spend about £10,000 a year on my eldest two children.

This is made up of a portion of the mortgage costs for living in a big enough house to accommodate them, the extra cost of groceries, entertainment, shoes, clothes, hobbies, school uniforms, presents, school trips, pocket money, mobile phones, haircuts...

CraftyEmu

One thing i've never understood is why Childrens Tax Credit don't take into account how much child maintenance is received - if it did those that have ex-partners with larger salaries would receive less from the g'ment as their ex is paying more maintenance which then frees up money for those receiving nothing from their ex to receive more g'ment assistance.

I understand WTC doesn't but to me Maintenance and Child Tax Credit are there to do the same thing - help with raising the child. That way those ex partners who do contribute to their child's upbringing may feel it's more valued than currently when some people view it as 'extra'.

Lastly I would just like to say that there are plenty of NRP out there who pay the correct (and often increased) level of maintenance expected, contribute to extras and do so on time and willingly.