Same Story with Twist of 2 PCN from Luton Airport APCOA

shahG

Hello Everyone,

I have red few threads already to get an idea but I am lacking of finding the right one for me.

I am a new private hire driver & recently I dropped off a customer at Luton Airport as it was my first drop-off at Luton Airport. Customer was keep on asking me to stop the car near to the mini roundabout as there was congestion. There was few other drivers dropping off as well so I thought its fine to drop of here as the way she was insisting I just stopped because she was about to open the door as well. I didn’t have no choice other than to stop. Then I went straight through and unluckily went to the drop-off area where I had to pay for the exit.J

After few days later I went again but this time I didn’t drop-off but picked up my friend from the same place as I thought its fine nothing has happened last time. Now I have received 2 PCN.

• in the "contravention of Dropping Off / parking up outside of a designated parking area".

The alleged infringement occurred 21/12/2016 and the date of issue is 06/01/2017 approximately after 16 or 17 days later. Obviously I received even 2 or 3 days after issuing.

“The alleged contravention is a Breach of the terms & conditions of use of the Airport Road infrastructure where signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions.”

I can see the signs clearly in the pictures but still on the other grounds I can make a valid appeal like 14 days etc.

I have received a reminder letter for this PCN and in this letter they have mentioned the

“ In regards to parking charge notice

---

which was issued to you on 21/12/2016 the contravention of failing to park/stop in a designated area.”

Which is a clearly false information as I have a letter stated 06/01/2017 issue date.

• The second one has similar reason and also issued over 14 days later.

I have received the reminder letter for this pcn with the false issuing date. The reminder letter states that the infringement date and issue date is same.

After some research I have found one thread which I am not even sure can be used or suitable for:

26th January 2017.

Apcoa Parking
PO Box 1010
Middlesex
UB8 9NT

Dear Sir or Madam,
Ticket number:

---

Vehicle registration number:
The unlawful issue of a ‘Notice to Keeper’ (BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22)
I am the registered keeper of a

---

motor vehicle registration number
I refer to recent PCN dated /-/2017.
I assume your “Parking Charge Notice” and the first line being “Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper” that this is a “Notice to Keeper” and along with other references drawn from the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) it is clear that APCOA is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA.
The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.

The BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).
APCOA has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;

Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice to Keeper’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to APCOA, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be APCOA or London Luton Airport or, some other party.
PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”
The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.
This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided.

He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”

Secondly, in addition to APCOA’s failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.

Thirdly, the most serious failure and that which has given me cause to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA.

You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”.

The alleged infringement occurred on the 21st December 2016 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated 6th January 2017 which is 16 days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.

Paragraph 9(4) indicates that the Notice to Keeper must be given to the registered keeper not more than 14 days after the car allegedly infringed the car park terms and conditions. Paragraph 9(6) states that “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted” which in this case would be the 3rd January 2017.

Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper under PoFA. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that there can be no keeper liability.

That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done so.

If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into.

Yours sincerely


However, I have seen on the top of the letter they have mentioned
“Creditor: APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd.”
Guys, Could you please help me should I just send this one or another..
And should I mention both PCN in one appeal or separately. If separately then can I send the same one again?
Many Thanks Everyone..
Regards,
Shah

HO87

Each PCN should be appealed separately but using identical wording.

As a starter APCOA do not use the keeper liability provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and in any event they cannot do so as the roads at the terminal are subject of byelaws meaning that that Act does not apply in any event. Your argument that Notices were issued out of time is therefore somewhat redundant.

However POPLA has recently ruled in a very similar case to yours involving APCOA at Birmingham Airport that the signage - "No Stopping or waiting at any time to drop off or pick up" did not convey a contractual offer (and that there could not therefore have been any breach) and the additional words used - "Warning - enforcement charge £100" misrepresented their authority and this may well convey the impression that the PCN's were supported by some form of statutory regime (which they are not). The POPLA assessor involved was Louise Dack.

Redx

for the initial appeals you can just use the BLUE TEXT wording in the NEWBIES sticky thread , appealing each one separately

then you should get 2 popla codes

then just copy and paste a recent BIRMINGHAM or LUTON airports popla appeal , amending it to ensure nothing false is written , like location or personal details (should take 5 minutes to amend one)

an ideal one could be a recent BHX one , changing BRUM to LUTON , then submitting each one separately to popla

like this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5578602

do not reveal the drivers details under ANY circumstances

APCOA will fold when they see a decent popla appeal

or popla will rule as instructed in post #2

either way these are an easy win for you , but treat each pcn separately

and yes you will have to "go through the motions"

in future , try to use the drop off area (which may be free for a short time) and try not to stop on the roads, otherwise this will happen again and again

when you said "nothing will happen , or nothing has happened) , you need to put YET on the end , because they will almost ALWAYS send you a pcn in the post a few weeks later - then you have to go through this rigmarole

shahG

Thank you so much for your quick reply Tedx & Ho87..
Could you please give a link for newbies blue thread because I don't want to do any mistake as I am not good enough with forum searching need sometime to get use to it thank you!

Umkomaas

Seek and you will find. The best way to learn how to use this forum. Go back one page from this thread (use the 'Back' button, looks like this: <) and the NEWBIES FAQ sticky is one of the top 4 threads on that page ('Stuck' to the top - hence 'Sticky').

Forum Lesson #1.

Redx

third thread down from the top of this forum , above your thread, not hard to find or read and is good practice for the future

shahG

this is the treasure we were talking about ?




Dear {name of IPC member - only IPC members for this version!!!}

Re PCN number:

I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company?
2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, for example) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle, whether you have already obtained it or not. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days.

Yours faithfully,

The_Deep

As a starter APCOA do not use the keeper liability provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

They are trying to use it against my son in law.

Some reading

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If you think that this PPC has obtained your personal data from the DVLA without due cause, i.e. they have failed to allow grace period, and /or breached their Kadoe contract you can complain to the DVLA, and also sue them. [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/parking-companies-breaking-data.html[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5585388[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/smart-parking-settle-out-of-court-for.html[/FONT]

Redx

no , you want the one in BLUE TEXT for BPA members

shahG

this is correct one ?

Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the BPA Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, for example) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal in your contract, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not give you consent to process data from the DVLA relating to this vehicle, whether you have already obtained it or not.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Redx

matches what I said , doesnt it ????