FINAL REMINDER - SIP LIMITED - Manchester

Redx

I doubt that you would be paying the multi-millionaire that owns these car parks

you would be paying the par@sites employed by the owner or the M.A. to "manage" the onsite parking , so if that is SIP then its paying SIP, the contractor

after all , if you pay EASYJET for a ticket to Barcelona you are not paying them for the jet fuel, they are paying B.P. or TEXACO or SHELL or whoever they contract for the fuel itself to be put in the aircraft

very few car par owners actually manage their own parking arrangements , its all sub-contracted out

generally speaking , they want their pound of flesh and will rarely settle for less than the demands they send out and Gladstones get paid regardless as they are advising the client and issuing roboclaims on a massive scale

bargepole explains it more in this recent thread

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533125&page=13

thismakemesad

So after some considerable time debating what to do, I've waited for the letter as previously stated, and there is a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones.

They have written what I imagine is the usual, about their client writing to request a payment and the amounts are still outstanding. The remainder of the letter goes as follows:

'The debts relate to parking charges (detailed above) for which you are liable. Full details of the charges have previously been provided to you within the Parking Charge Notices and/or Notices to Driver/Keeper that have been served upon you. The Claimant will rely on these documents in the forthcoming action against you.

We refer you to the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules and in particular paragraph 13-16 of the same which concerns the Court's powers to impose sanctions for any failure to comply.

We now require you to pay the full amount within 14 days. Alternatively, you should provide an acknowledgement of receipt of this letter and a full written response within 14 days. Your response should provide your full account of the circumstances that have led to the charges being imposed and should include confirmation as to who the driver(s) of the vehicle were at the time of each incident and a current address for service for each driver. Unless a satisfactory response is provided, we are instructed to start proceedings against you without any further notice in order to recover amounts due and costs associated with the recovery of them. The amount that is claimed may therefore increase in terms of costs and any interest that is recoverable.'


To reiterate, the driver received the ticket after paying for 3 hours, and failed to return for 40 minutes due to a work commitment that prevented.
Admittedly the driver should not have left the ticket without contact but it's not time to make a move on responding I feel.
Do you have any recommendations on how to proceed?
Not sure if this needs a new thread to refresh it so people can see?

Umkomaas

Not sure if this needs a new thread to refresh it so people can see?

It does not need a new thread, otherwise all context/background is lost and no regular is going to be flicking back and to between different threads to make sense of everything. We are dealing with 50+ different cases each day and it's impossible to remember in detail what individual cases are about, without back-referencing earlier posts. Any time a new post appears on this thread, the thread is automatically bumped to the top of the forum thread list.

A formal LBC needs to be responded to, you need to deny any debt exists and any court claim made by the PPC will be vigorously and robustly defended. What you don't need to do is any of this:

Your response should provide your full account of the circumstances that have led to the charges being imposed and should include confirmation as to who the driver(s) of the vehicle were at the time of each incident and a current address for service for each driver.

Post #6 of this thread shows a response to a Gladstones LBC for you to use as a framework against which to pen your own.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72403840&highlight=gladstones+lbc+response#post72403840

Unless a satisfactory response is provided, we are instructed to start proceedings against you without any further notice

A 'satisfactory response' can only be written on a cheque! SIP have become litigious more recently, so work on the basis that court papers will follow, but they can be defended, there's help here from court-savvy regulars and the forum has seen off 99% of Gladstones claims.

thismakemesad

Thank you very much! I'll get cracking on the letter tomorrow, should I post it here? Or simply adapt the one there?
Is it a problem if they recognise it as a letter they have had before with different details?

All the best

Umkomaas

should I post it here? Or simply adapt the one there?

You can post it here for comment, but don't be dependent on a response. The forum is manic at times and threads can easily disappear down the forum list very quickly as new ones (or answered ones) emerge.

For example, today the small handful of regulars have dealt with 75 different threads, some of which have more than 5-10 inputs, some with complex responses. Do the math! Additionally some of the regulars are also active, in parallel, on PePiPoo.

It can get overwhelming. Just look at how late (silly o'clock) stalwart Coupon-mad is working on stuff - every night, 7 days a week.

Jeez is that the time - and I can often be up to 2 hours ahead of everyone!

thismakemesad

Hi all,

Response below as suggested. I'll get it in the post ASAP if approved and appropriate.
I assume at this point, specifics on my situation will not be needed? Just requesting the correct and full information?

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN XXXXXXXX – Letter Before County Court Claim

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your Letter Before Claim dated 12th April 2017.

Firstly, I deny any debt to Sip Parking Limited and any court proceedings will be vigorously and robustly defended.

Secondly, in reading your letter I do not believe (in reading through the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct) that it is fully compliant with the Practice Direction: it is in fact woefully defective and possibly a deliberate attempt to mislead the recipient.

Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of the Practice Direction: areas which you are not compliant are listed below (reference Practise Direction, Annex A Para 2):

2.1 The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter, allowing the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include:
(1) the claimant’s full name and address;
(2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable): Contract Claim, Trespass Claim or other;
(3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based: why exactly has the defendant been charged;
(4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;
(5) any financial loss claimed with an explanation of how the amount has been calculated (including any increases from the original amount claimed); and
(6) all photographic and physical evidence taken, provided to IAS. Has any of this information been withheld from the defendant as appellant, if so, the defendant wishes to see the entire ‘case’ as IAS saw.

2.2 The letter should also:
(1) list fully the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely. You cannot presume that all the documents you will rely on are in my possession. I do acknowledge that once I have submitted my defence then further documents in rebuttal maybe submitted by the claimant;
(2) set out the form of any further ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;

Please confirm that your client's contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced for the court. I also require an explanation/justification for any additional charges added to the original including confirmation that these have already been invoiced and paid to any third parties involved.

When I receive the documents and your explanations, I will be in a better position to make a more detailed response. It would be unreasonable to proceed with litigation before you have clarified your client's cause of action.

I look forward to your response

Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

(reference Practise Direction, Annex A Para 2)

It's practice not practise.

But that's a really old letter, there is no Annex A. I have no idea why people keep using this old letter, time an again, instead of one of the better, more recent ones. This is covered on lots of other Gladstones threads, try searching 'Annex Gladstones LBCCC' or similar.

You will learn far more from other threads after searching, than on this thread alone. Expect a claim anyway but I would send a more relevant letter, read other threads just like yours, more recent ones than wherever that came from.

thismakemesad

Hi guys,
I unfortunately couldn't login to my account right after I sent that last message and couldn't wait any longer for moneysavingexpert to reply (problem with my email account so couldn't change password). And as it was the final day, I sent that letter above
Has this created a big problem with my case??

I also received a County Court Claim Form. The total amount is £240.76. I have 14 days from the 02 May 2017 to reply. What would be the next step in this process?
Do I fill in the Defence and Counterclaim form online at the back? If so, I assume I submit a Defence at the same time?

thismakemesad

[IMG]<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=1eugbd&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.tinypic.com/1eugbd.png&quot; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>[/IMG]

This is the car park in question, the driver was parked where the silver car is closest, facing the road.
This was taken a month before the ticket was issued and the driver remembers a much larger billboard type sign right next to the ticket machine which doesn't appear in this picture.

The fact the driver was facing the road meant they had this view below and would have had to be looked behind and past other cars to have seen the sign with information on it.

[IMG]<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2eewjg1&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i66.tinypic.com/2eewjg1.png&quot; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>[/IMG]

I hope this helps?

thismakemesad

Hi guys,
Should I start a new thread for this? I'm not sure if it doesn't get seen anymore because it is older?

I've been to visit the site where the drive received the ticket as I was back in the area and I didn't realise how bad the signage was. The signs are tiny and about 10 foot in the air. Where the driver was parked at the location explained above which meant the driver was facing the road and there was literally no signs in front in view.
I feel very confident the case could win on the basis of what I've seen. I have also drafted a defence but not sure what to put into the defence regarding the signs. I think I have found valid points for everything else regarding the claim, should I post?

Thanks guys!