Electric cars

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  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Developing and adapting are nothing new, that's what systems do. This is wholly different to anyone believing that the grid which copes with 50-55GW of demand at peak (down from around 60GW) can't cope with EV's being charged at night.

    That's why I've tried hard to give reasonable and rational figures of power and energy (W's and Wh's) to show that outside of the peak we can cope, and even during the peak EV's may be more of a support solution than a problem, albeit with steady adaptation and development ....... call it progress.

    You did. I’m not sure why. I don’t recall the ability of the grid to generate and supply the extra power or energy being disputed. However, charging EVs at night means supplying that power over an extended period and that may have a negative effect on the distribution infrastructure. Transformer life, for example.
  • gzoom
    gzoom Posts: 531 Forumite
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    Finally some real life reviews of the Model 3 coming out....4.4 seconds 0-60mph even for the non-performance version. Cannot wait for ours to arrive :)

    https://youtu.be/xocBqB5bARY
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    edited 18 January 2018 at 9:36PM
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    gzoom wrote: »
    Finally some real life reviews of the Model 3 coming out....4.4 seconds 0-60mph even for the non-performance version. Cannot wait for ours to arrive :)

    https://youtu.be/xocBqB5bARY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocBqB5bARY


    $35,000 (£25,213) in the US. How much are they in the UK?
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,794 Forumite
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    edited 19 January 2018 at 9:30AM
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    You did. I’m not sure why. I don’t recall the ability of the grid to generate and supply the extra power or energy being disputed. However, charging EVs at night means supplying that power over an extended period and that may have a negative effect on the distribution infrastructure. Transformer life, for example.

    You don't recall? You seem to have to great lengths to suggest problems, always ignoring explanations.

    So explanations of the actual average draw, the existing capacity not used at night, the BMW study showing that V2G actually reduces peak demand. None of this rings a bell.

    How about the huge number of posts from EV'ers explaining why the large majority of those 2m EV's would not be charged at peak, and certainly won't need to be charged every day.

    How about the tentative (so far) deployment of domestic batts for PV'ers, and also by DNO's on trials to households for peak shaving?

    How about the existing 'clubs' in Australia where battery owners sell leccy to the grid at high demand periods at a profit, such as last year at A$1/kWh (A$1,000/MWh (£575/MWh)) when the grid spot price hit A$1.4/kWh.

    How about announcements from UK wind and PV farms that they will deploy battery storage (there is no retro-fit penalty) as and when the economics stack up. Those economics would get a boost if demand (price) rose at peaks.

    How about time of day tariffs, a recent one was interesting 5p at night, 12p during the day, and 25p during evening peaks on week days - I'll tell you what that tariff is, it's a PV and battery dream. Reduced demand at 12p, no demand at 25p for 8 months of the year due to PV and or batts, and no demand at 25p in the bottom 4 months due to battery arbitrage from 5p leccy charging. So let's say a million households (4%) going 'off-grid' (as good as) during the evening peak in the future.

    It's easy to throw out negatives, and near hysterical conclusions (such as EV's not being able to go round corners) but it's far harder to back up these claims in the real world - a world that naturally adapts, especially when there is an economic incentive.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    How about the existing 'clubs' in Australia where battery owners sell leccy to the grid at high demand periods at a profit
    Where does the electricity come from?
  • Lokolo
    Lokolo Posts: 20,861 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocBqB5bARY


    $35,000 (£25,213) in the US. How much are they in the UK?

    I would suspect they will start at around £35k. They also won't likely be before Q2 2019 I reckon with RHD.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    One of the "hysterical" problems I mentioned was transformer cooling. Long term, it could be a problem. From the International Journal of Electrical Power & Energy Systems, February 2015..
    Hi

    The issue here is the ability/willingness to navigate around problems and leverage their existence to provide opportunities ....

    In the case of transformer heat dissipation potentially causing lifespan issues, there's two obvious approaches ...
    1. Accept the shorter lifespan and write off increased time-line capital costs against increased energy throughput.

    2. Enhance the cooling mechanism utilising revenue provided by increased energy throughput.
    Issue solved .. so where would there be opportunities? - well, whilst upgrading the cooling system why not recover the heat and utilise it in a community CHP scheme providing energy efficiency improvements and an additional revenue stream to the network operators ... is it possible?, well I remember reading an article by NG a few years ago which mentioned that they were already trialling the possibility, so it probably is!

    Insurmountable problems to some are simply opportunities to others!

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    Where does the electricity come from?
    Hi

    In terms of what was being explained (ie flattening demand through leveraging storage) it doesn't really matter what the source is .... but if I was in Australia and wanted to look at a scheme to help finance the SolarPV/Battery combination to help power my home, I'd certainly be interested in something like that!

    Considering the above, the answer you're looking for would probably be simple - the sun, via solar panels, inverters, batteries, transformers & wires!

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    *ding* Give that man a coconut.

    Now, for the follow-on question, can you think why extrapolations of solar PV might be hard between Australia and the UK?

    Clues: Climate, land usage.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    *ding* Give that man a coconut.

    Now, for the follow-on question, can you think why extrapolations of solar PV might be hard between Australia and the UK?

    Clues: Climate, land usage.
    Hi

    I'm sitting here in the UK in January, utilising solar PV to both power all electrical devices in the house & provide around 2.5kW of heat into the building's thermal mass - and still exporting 73% of own generation to the grid! ... that's plenty to put aside into a storage system to be used later, either in house or for grid balancing ...

    So your point of concern & clues are related to what exactly? ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
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