Electric cars

DrEskimo

AdrianC wrote: »

Using "hybrid" as the term for non-plug-ins wasn't an issue until they needed differentiating from plug-ins.

I guess the point I was admittedly labouring to make was, isn't the onus on plug-in hybrids to come up with a term that differentiates them from standard hybrids, not the other way around?

If Hybrids were well understood, then why wasn't it sufficient to leave that term as is, and then just use the term plug-in hybrid for, well, the plug in hybrids?

I don't understand the motivation for changing to self-charging, if not for clever marketing to belittle the concept of plugging a car in, be it plug in hybrid or pure EV....

DrEskimo

gzoom wrote: »

Purely from a selfish point of view I'm loving the fact the public is lapping up the whole 'self charging hybrid' slogan.

Our other car is a 'self charging hybrid', been a small executive saloon I would expect it to have lost well over 50% value at 4 years old. But a quick look on Autotrader today shows as a private sale I'll be able achieve 60%+ what we paid for it back in 2015, since we'll be looking to move to a full EV driveway at some point its great news .

So am all for 'self charging hybrids', they are fab cars, work well, reliable, economical, and a great second hand buys :rotfl:.

Ha, my Dad's Lexus RX450h has had the same effect....not that you can tear him away from it to sell it anyway....5-yrs and 80k miles and the thing has not missed a beat..!

I'm paying to install a charge point at his for my EV though, so I think I can persuade him to move to pure EV when the time comes for a change...shame Lexus probably still won't have a pure EV out though....

AdrianC

DrEskimo wrote: »

I guess the point I was admittedly labouring to make was, isn't the onus on plug-in hybrids to come up with a term that differentiates them from standard hybrids, not the other way around?

They did. "Plug-in hybrid".

If Hybrids were well understood, then why wasn't it sufficient to leave that term as is, and then just use the term plug-in hybrid for, well, the plug in hybrids?

Because all hybrids - "self-charging" and plug-in - are hybrids.
Not all hybrids are plug-in.

I don't understand the motivation for changing to self-charging, if not for clever marketing to belittle the concept of plugging a car in, be it plug in hybrid or pure EV....

I suspect they were having people in the showroom looking at the non-plug-ins and asking where they plugged it in.
"Umm, you don't".
But it's a hybrid, and runs on electrickery?
"Umm, yes, but it makes it itself." <ping!>

NBLondon

Electrically assisted petrol vehicle would be more accurate on the basis that it can't run without some petrol . But not so exciting to the marketing guys. Whereas a BMW i3 REx is a petrol assisted electric vehicle.

Anybody know if the world's first hybrid - the Lohner-Porsche of 1900 or so was plug-in or self-chaging?

DrEskimo

AdrianC wrote: »

They did. "Plug-in hybrid".



Because all hybrids - "self-charging" and plug-in - are hybrids.
Not all hybrids are plug-in.



I suspect they were having people in the showroom looking at the non-plug-ins and asking where they plugged it in.
"Umm, you don't".
But it's a hybrid, and runs on electrickery?
"Umm, yes, but it makes it itself." <ping!>

Ha, but that conversation wouldn't happen, because the term 'hybrid' was well established before plug-in hybrids became popular. Prius et al had already cemented the concept of 'Hybrid', so the confusion would come about when people were looking at plug ins, not non-plug ins!

"Why is there an extra fuel flap on this hybrid?"
"It's a plug-in hybrid"
"Oh OK"

.....

Cornucopia

I've got one of those "self-fuelling cars". I mean, I have to be there... but the car drinks down the petrol all by itself.

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

Purely from a selfish point of view I'm loving the fact the public is lapping up the whole 'self charging hybrid' slogan.

Our other car is a 'self charging hybrid', been a small executive saloon I would expect it to have lost well over 50% value at 4 years old. But a quick look on Autotrader today shows as a private sale I'll be able achieve 60%+ what we paid for it back in 2015, since we'll be looking to move to a full EV driveway at some point its great news .

So am all for 'self charging hybrids', they are fab cars, work well, reliable, economical, and a great second hand buys :rotfl:.

I think that's the 'other side of the coin', so whilst I agree with RL and Nikki that Toyota are being naughty in order to promote HEV's off the back of public interest (and ignorance) in electric cars, it is also raising more interest in EV's.

Toyota should of course know better than to suggest these are self charging electric cars, since that's akin to a perpetual motion machine, and I doubt they've managed that yet*.

I like RL's response to start calling his BEV a self charging electric car simply to upset those that say 'no, no no' you have to plug it in ........ unlike the HEV's that have to be 'refueled'? :wall:

*I'm sure VW have though, so long as you don't 'test' it thoroughly.

Martyn1981

DrEskimo wrote: »

Self charging is no less confusing, in fact it has clearly created more confusion. Particularly as any EV, hybrid, plug in hybrid or pure EV are all 'self charging' in the exact same way....

Not just confusing, deliberately misleading I believe, and perhaps the last throw of the dice given their policy of fuel cell vehicles over BEV's.

Caveat - We may find that fuel cell vehicles do succeed in Japan as it has 'issues' regarding the ability to produce enough leccy for all demands, and they have now created and tested rules/regs for H2 shipments from Australia (probably in the form of ammonia) since Aus has no limits on the production of cheap leccy from PV going forward, so that's an option, possibly a realistic option, we will have to see.

silverwhistle

What we need is a succession of customers going in and asking lots of naive questions like "Self-charging? Brilliant, where are the solar panels?", "Why is there a fuel cap/fuel gauge?" "Not having it, it broke down on my test weekend and I had to tow it here.." "How many miles does it do per kWh?"


Eventually the sales staff are going to throttle the marketing people..

Martyn1981

silverwhistle wrote: »

What we need is a succession of customers going in and asking lots of naive questions like "Self-charging? Brilliant, where are the solar panels?", "Why is there a fuel cap/fuel gauge?" "Not having it, it broke down on my test weekend and I had to tow it here.." "How many miles does it do per kWh?"


Eventually the sales staff are going to throttle the marketing people..

I suppose the hope is that this creates new interest in EV's (as @gzoom mentions). So long as those interested in 'self charging electric cars' 'that don't need to be plugged in' don't get angry about all EV's, it might work, but I suspect it's Toyota simply fighting back against BEV's. I do wish they'd get on board the BEV train, they did so much to get it started.

And we need loads of BEV manufacturers, since Tesla can't do this alone, though battery supply constraints are already hitting:

Once-hailed ‘Tesla Killer’ Audi e-tron slows down production to just 6 hrs/day: report

Edit - And now Reuters is jumping on the HEV bandwagon!

Reuters Spreads Electric Vehicle FUD On Behalf Of Laggard Japanese Auto