Electric cars

silverwhistle

buglawton wrote: »

So it's going to be a society of charging haves, driveway parking with domestic rate electricity tariffs, and charging have-nots, paying 2-3 times as much at public service points?

Well, I'm glad you included the question mark. No, not if we organise it properly, although the current government's lack of any attention to anything other than a single political issue at the moment, and their lack of concern for the have-nots obviously evokes concern.



But if can't you see that there may be a difference between expensive fast charging on strategic main routes, and far cheaper (and slower) charging from lamp posts and the like, then I think you are looking for problems, not solutions. For example local councils might implement street charging at cheap overnight rates, with the blessing of National Grid even.



So raise the issue by all means, but please don't become an Adrian.:-)

AdrianC

buglawton wrote: »

In this very thread we've posts saying that 35p/unit - near 3x domestic rate being charged at fast charging service stations - is OK because anyone in their right mind would mostly charge at home.

Try that in streets like this

There is already on-street charging infrastructure in urban areas already, of course.


Here's one:

https://goo.gl/maps/xSvVmATCtPs

And it's in use... by a hybrid with a 5kWh battery.

And I hope nobody wanted to get a mobility scooter or a double-width pushchair along that bit of pavement. It looks a bit tight...

cfw1994

Wow.
Dropped in here to see some discussion about EVs....figured the big thread titled “Electric Cars” would be the one.
Gone back 2 or 3 pages, only to find bickering about whether the generation industry is a scam.
Sigh!
Clearly not the board I am looking for!

Herzlos

Yeah I'm afraid the discussion and news about EVs is largely lost in the noise.

buglawton wrote: »

So it's going to be a society of charging haves, driveway parking with domestic rate electricity tariffs, and charging have-nots, paying 2-3 times as much at public service points?

You mean like literally everything else in society?

At some point there probably won't be free charging any more, so those without home charging facilities will have to pay a bit more to charge. If some remain free (Like supermarkets to beat competition) then it's a non issue.

Those without home parking spaces may have to pay a bit more for fuel, just like they need to pay for parking permits. You might find the house price difference increases and compensates for it, or the mass market productization of automated cars causes domestic ownership to drop.

Things are already heavily biased towards the wealthy I'm afraid. New cars are lower tax and fuel, expensive stuff lasts longer than cheap stuff, and so on. Electric cars aren't going to be a panacea.

Herzlos

AdrianC wrote: »

There is already on-street charging infrastructure in urban areas already, of course.


Here's one:

https://goo.gl/maps/xSvVmATCtPs

And it's in use... by a hybrid with a 5kWh battery.

And I hope nobody wanted to get a mobility scooter or a double-width pushchair along that bit of pavement. It looks a bit tight...

That does look a bit tight but presumably there are guidelines and it's actually ok. I'm sure I've heard of badly installed charging points causing problems elsewhere.

Why can't a plug in hybrid use the charger? We've no idea how long it was there for or if it was preventing anyone else using it, and it's got as much right to charge as anyone else. If it was parked there all day that'd be pretty rude though but I'm not sure it's got any more to do with the fuelling type than someone who leaves a car at a petrol pump whilst they do a weekly shop in the supermarket attached to the petrol station.

buglawton

silverwhistle wrote: »

Well, I'm glad you included the question mark. No, not if we organise it properly, although the current government's lack of any attention to anything other than a single political issue at the moment, and their lack of concern for the have-nots obviously evokes concern.

But if can't you see that there may be a difference between expensive fast charging on strategic main routes, and far cheaper (and slower) charging from lamp posts and the like, then I think you are looking for problems, not solutions. For example local councils might implement street charging at cheap overnight rates, with the blessing of National Grid even.

So raise the issue by all means, but please don't become an Adrian.:-)

"If we organise it properly", there's the rub. One lonely charging point as in the Google streetview link below does not an infrastructure make.

The EV enthusiasts are quick to point out benefits - cheap fuel, zero local emissions and simplicity of maintenance.
While the massive, overwhelming elephant in the room is EV infrastructure. We don't live in a country that does infrastructure, public spending and joined up thinking well.

To approximate the convenience that motorists expect, everyone will want a charging point per overnight parking space and expect to pay the same domestic rate they do at home.

Martyn1981

buglawton wrote: »

" We don't live in a country that does infrastructure, public spending and joined up thinking well.

Do we still buy our petrol in cans from the chemist?

The infrastructure and creative solutions to problems will roll out in line with EV adoption, not before.

Herzlos

buglawton wrote: »

To approximate the convenience that motorists expect, everyone will want a charging point per overnight parking space and expect to pay the same domestic rate they do at home.

Why? We don't have petrol pumps at home or pay the same rates for car fuel as we do for heating fuel or vegetable oil. So why would you expect the same of electric vehicles?


Plus EV's are likely to be more convenient that ICE for a huge number of people who are able to charge whilst doing stuff they'd do anyway, instead of having to go to a petrol station every few weeks. Whether that's charging at home, or using a charging space at work, the train station, shopping centre, supermarket etc. They don't even need to charge in a single go, and charge up in small bursts every time they go to do their shopping. They may pay a little bit more for the convenience of doing that, or it may be free as an incentive.

almillar

In this very thread we've posts saying that 35p/unit - near 3x domestic rate being charged at fast charging service stations - is OK because anyone in their right mind would mostly charge at home.

So it's going to be a society of charging haves, driveway parking with domestic rate electricity tariffs, and charging have-nots, paying 2-3 times as much at public service points?

You're just ignoring the rest of the discussion, then, about destination chargers, charging at work, whilst shopping etc? There will be a premium at rapid chargers because of their key locations, and speed. You choose to ignore the cheaper and free chargers. Do you buy your petrol at a motorway service station too, or do you avoid it because it's expensive?

To approximate the convenience that motorists expect, everyone will want a charging point per overnight parking space and expect to pay the same domestic rate they do at home

OK, answer me a question - how often do you think an EV needs to charge - hint, it's not necessarily every night! Are you grossly overestimating the time taken to charge? As a very rough guide, 30 mins at a rapid would give, say, 60 miles of driving. 2 hours at a standard 7kW one would give, say, 50 miles. That would get me to work and back home a few times.

cfw1994

Herzlos wrote: »

Why? We don't have petrol pumps at home or pay the same rates for car fuel as we do for heating fuel or vegetable oil. So why would you expect the same of electric vehicles?

Well, we've dropped in an order for a Hyundai Kona - the 300mile range (which should be at least 200-250 in general) means it can be a proper second car....& actually, the convenience of not wasting time at petrol stations is a big plus to me!
Shame it won't arrive until next August:(

Yes, I agree they remain relatively 'elitist' at the moment. We have an off road (shared) drive that will easily accommodate our charger needs - but it does feel like it will be at least a small step into the future of motoring.
We don't feel we could go without an ICE yet - need vehicle with greater capacity, as well as something more easily up to longer drives, but I can easily imagine 'Sparky' becoming the local vehicle of choice!