Electric cars

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

I'm not big on endlessly repeating things to people who clearly didn't listen the first time.

Ah, he's back.

I see the confusion, you think I'm asking you to repeat what you've said each time ..... no ...... I'm asking you to provide some evidence .... any?

17:20 ........ any evidence, perhaps just a scrap of evidence ...... please?

17:30 ...... pretty please?

18:47 ......... no evidence then?

Stageshoot

The Range Problem really is becoming a non issue.

My new ride arrived yesterday.

I know colour and style wont be to a lot of peoples tastes but as the last few cars were boring grey, decided to be brighter this time.

70Kwh Battery With 64Kwh usable. Real World 300 mile range.

100Kwh charging.. Its making range anxiety a none issue (Not that it was in my Zoe with 180-200 miles range).

Loads of Tech inside, A real pleasure to drive, and despite being a lardy 1700lbs its certainly no slouch. More and more like this coming next year, the excuses to avoid EVs are drying up.

AdrianC

Stageshoot wrote: »

I know colour and style wont be to a lot of peoples tastes but as the last few cars were boring grey, decided to be brighter this time.

You've certainly managed that!

Real World 300 mile range.

Good. As you say, it's becoming a non-issue. Finally... Soon, that'll be the rule not the exception.

100Kwh charging.

How many 100kWh chargers are there in the wild? That's some pretty heavy-duty power - do you know what voltage it's charging at?

despite being a lardy 1700lbs

I think you mean 1,700kg - 3,750lb. That's not actually that much heavier than the ICE versions of the Kona, which can hit 1,500kg. Ridiculous, isn't it? Most cars are stupidly lardy these days.

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

No, you actually asked ...
... immediately before referencing and quoting from an article that states ...

... therefore answering your own question in that BNEF expect California to be an early adopter state in the USA, which would likely mean that they would, by default, rank globally too.

Before you start to spin the meaning towards comparing a US state to China (which is expected!), you should consider the relative percentages involved ... the referenced article simply highlights that EV variant sales in California had passed the 10% threshold which is approximately 4x the level of market penetration in China and about a third of that achieved in Norway, which is widely considered as being at the forefront of EV adoption ...

So, having answered your own query, what's the point you're struggling to argue apart from portraying the usual EV negativity, particularly so when considering Tesla ... ??

HTH
Z

Quick bit of fact checking seems to suggest that China will have over 3m plug in EV's by the end of this year. I note the 4m in the article does include buses, and China has a lot of buses (EV's), so it looks like the 4m worldwide figure might well be plug in only ....... somewhat different to Ade's unsupported claim that most are non-plug in's - so no surprises there then.

Also looks like the % take up of PEV's in China is rising rapidly, now 4% and perhaps 6% by the end of the year.

China Plug-in Vehicle Sales for the 1st Half of 2018

I'm starting to think that rather than spend time researching, I'd get the end result much faster simply by reading what Ade posts and then assuming the exact opposite?

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Real World 300 mile range.

Good. As you say, it's becoming a non-issue. Finally... Soon, that'll be the rule not the exception.

Hi

Why would a 300 mile range be the 'rule not the exception'? ... surely there's a market for vehicles with a selection of optional power packs offering different ranges as a cost-related choice to the buyer.

For someone who doesn't use their vehicle extensively or only occasionally travels long distances, do you believe that they should be forced to spend £thousands more on unnecessary battery capacity ... 300 miles in range represents the average motorist requiring a single charge every fortnight, but it's likely that they'd be plugging in to recharge much more frequently which means that they'd likely be buying the wrong product to suit their needs ...note, that's their needs, not yours!

I don't really follow the logic behind your belief that a 300 mile range is sufficient for range anxiety "becoming a non-issue" ... as long as there's at least one vehicle with the capability of meeting an individual's range requirement, then there's a solution to their needs, so it's not 'becoming' - it's 'become' so there's no longer an issue ...

For an increasing number of potential buyers (probably most?), a realistic 300mile range means that there's no range related argument remaining ... box ticked, time to move on!

HTH
Z

silverwhistle

AdrianC wrote: »

I'm not big on endlessly repeating things to people who clearly didn't listen the first time.

That made me laugh out loud.


Your really don't take in what people are saying already about their usage of EVs. Sorry for taking your name in vain earlier Stageshoot but thanks for updating us on your new wheels!


As Zeupater says

Why would a 300 mile range be the 'rule not the exception'? ... surely there's a market for vehicles with a selection of optional power packs offering different ranges as a cost-related choice to the buyer.

As he says - their needs not yours.


Let me show you some real world decision making. I'm early retired so no regular commute against which I can ammortise the cost of an EV although I'd really like one. Many of my trips are quite short, particularly if I'm ferrying ageing parent to the GPs etc, otherwise I'd cycle. I go to regular team training and play within the county so need range for return trips for that. Longer trips within the UK are very infrequent and I do one long skiing trip to the Alps every year. Now the GF has bought an additional car based van for her company which with it's cruise control and space will be ideal for hacking down the French motorways (and bringing back even more wine!), so that changes the calculation again.


I'm not going to pay for a 300 mile range, nice though the reassurance would be. I probably need a real world winter range of 120 to meet my needs, and my summer jaunts would need a bit more planning. I'll definitely be avoiding Wales for now as they still haven't really caught up with the 21st century, and there's a particularly massive gap in the centre of the country, as you observed.



There are improvements needed in supply, cost, charging infrastructure; of that there's no doubt but please try and understand that we all have different needs and for me at the moment, apart from cost, there are really no show-stoppers.

buglawton

AdrianC wrote: »

20 years ago, washing machines were very low-tech, electronically.

Reckon you'll get 20yrs out of the replacement, which will be far more electronically complex...?

I'd almost forgotten about this: in fact this year I ditched an ICE for a battery powered electric motor. My 15 year old petrol lawnmower packed up. I'd previously reconditioned it myself, having found that there is no such thing in my part of the woods as lawnmower servicing. Doing your own service means you have to keep a good toolbox and devote valuable weekend time. So I scrapped the petrol mower.

There's a similar situation in lawnmowers as in ICE vs EV: Battery powered costs 3 times IC. Picked up a used battery mower from Ebay a bit North of £200. It mows as well as the petrol did, weighs less, runs a lot quieter and will be easier to start in the Spring. No need to store petrol in the shed. One moving part in the drivetrain. I think it will outlast the petrol mower and save a lot of servicing effort.

Car_54

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Quick bit of fact checking seems to suggest that China will have over 3m plug in EV's by the end of this year.

So your “fact” checking includes suggestions and predictions?

Martyn1981

Car_54 wrote: »

So your “fact” checking includes suggestions and predictions?

Let's see, the article stated that 4m EV's (now found to mean PEV's) currently exist.

Ade said that the vast, vast majority were hybrids, and that most of those were non-plug-in.

So therefore most of the 4m weren't PEV's.

Happy so far?

The article I posted shows that 3m PEV's in China alone will exist by the end of 2018 (we are 2/3rds of the way through 2018 already) ........ but, if you'd looked at the article, and the graphs, you'd have seen that the vast majority of those already exist. Yes?

If you'd taken the time to click on 'world' at the top of the article, you'd have seen that 3.27m PEV's were sold just from 2012-2017 (so excluding all of 2018, which is expected to add approx 1.9m more). Do you deny any of this information?

I believe my support of the 4m PEV article is fair, reasonable and rational. Yes?

Ade's denial of it is simply ideological anti-EV nonsense. Yes?

So, to save time, what do you believe, that 4m PEV's already exist, or Ade's claim that most of the 4m are non plug in hybrids?

No need for spin, cheap shots, avoidance or filibustering, which position do you agree with?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Let's see, the article stated that 4m EV's (now found to mean PEV's) currently exist.

Ade said that the vast, vast majority were hybrids, and that most of those were non-plug-in.

So therefore most of the 4m weren't PEV's.

OK, so the figure of 4m is just plug-in.

Any guesses as to the number of non-plugin hybrids extant?


I do apologise for taking the article you posted at face value, given that it includes the line...

CleanTechnica wrote:

BNEF reports that, including electric buses, 4 million electric vehicles were sold worldwide as of the end of June. It expects sales of electric passenger vehicles to hit the 4 million mark by this month. Note, however, that BNEF counts any vehicle with a battery as an EV, so the numbers include hybrids like the Toyota Prius that have no charging ports.

(My emphasis)


The "4m" figure did sound like a low number, and it doesn't take much to find...
https://newsroom.toyota.eu/global-sales-of-toyota-hybrids-reach-10-million/

Toyota wrote:

Worldwide Sales of Toyota Hybrids Surpass 10 Million Units

So I stand by the comment - and I think we can now agree that it's proven? - that of the total pool of "electrified" vehicles, the vast majority are indeed non-plugin hybrids.

My apologies for not questioning the figures you posted.