Electric cars

gzoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Just a shame to have to sit and wait/watch patiently while one company does what all of the big boys should now be doing.

The way Model 3 sales are going they aren't going to be sitting around for long. It's almost certain Tesla is going to end up selling more cars in Q3/Q4 with just 3 cars versus the entire BMW range in the US.


Bare in mind the current Model 3s been sold are still >$50K, lord knows what that number will look like once the $35K version starts to be delivered.




https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/20/tesla-usa-sales-might-be-higher-than-bmw-usa-sales-in-august/


Any main stream manufacture who haven't got EV mass production plans better start doing some R&D, interesting the top selling cars in the US is current Toyota.....whom have 0% interest in EVs, what happens to the automotive industry, over the next few years is going to be interesting.


Interesting to see Nokia's peak sales figures were achieved in 2007/2008, anyone want to guess which year Apple announced the original iPhone


https://www.statista.com/statistics/267819/nokias-net-sales-since-1999/

buglawton

AdrianC wrote: »

Absolutely this isn't in any way unique to EVs. It's simply what is killing more and more cars now, when mechanicals are good for many more years, and bodies are not rotting. Which is exactly why this "Oooh, but there's fewer moving parts" argument is just codswallop. And the more technology gets rammed in there, the more there is to go south. "Virtual cockpit" dashes? Common now. But turn it down a notch, and simply consider HVAC controls on a touch screen - suddenly you can't demist when you want to, or the heating's on full blast in summer.

And, yes, I have had that. I've also had displays that lose pixels and entire rows/columns - it's a very common problem, as cars with displays get older. Then there's the shenanigans with water ingress and multiplexed electronics, as aging screen and door seals leak or neglected pollen filters and cabin air plenums get clogged and overflow.

I can see where you are going with that, making an analogy with mobile phones and modern laptops, all sealed up and no replaceable parts. However I'm confident that there will in EV be disruptors, Dacia and Xiaomi type brands for the everyday commuter who will make a point about being simpler and cheaper.

AdrianC

There's the front-end electronics - which certainly can be "Dacia'd". And then there's the back-end control stuff - which definitely can't.

B'sides, most Dacia buyers avoid the headline loss-leader poverty-spec any-colour-so-long-as-its-white versions, and buy the spec'd-up versions with the technobling fitted.

buglawton

almillar wrote: »

...........
You're talking about low voltage circuit boards and chips. Stick some high voltage, relays and moving parts in there, and rattle it around on the road, and of course you can have unreliability. Trying to say that valves are reliable shows how daft your argument is.

To argue that automotive electronics are reliable, is to completely ignore all the electrical problems that ICE cars have. EVs have MOST of those electronics too, plus a whole new high voltage system replacing the mechanical, but mature technology, ICE.

My washing machine packed up today. It users high voltage, had loads of violent vibration, subject to condensation. Water runs through it. It contains relays, an electronic control unit and an electric motor.

Had 19 years of service out of it without a service visit or a repair.

AdrianC

20 years ago, washing machines were very low-tech, electronically.

Reckon you'll get 20yrs out of the replacement, which will be far more electronically complex...?

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

Any main stream manufacture who haven't got EV mass production plans better start doing some R&D, interesting the top selling cars in the US is current Toyota.....whom have 0% interest in EVs, what happens to the automotive industry, over the next few years is going to be interesting.

The problem is that ICE's are easier money for the existing big boys, and are essential to their dealerships who will have a lot of lobbying power and influence over their decisions going forward.

The good news though, for us, is that China and Tesla have proven the technology and profitability of going all in on EV's, and of course companies like Nissan, Renault and JLR have clearly seen the light too, though Nissan don't come out so well in the following article looking at advertising spending ICE v's EV.

Automakers Try Hard To NOT Sell Electric Cars

Car_54

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The good news though, for us, is that China and Tesla have proven the technology and profitability of going all in on EV's,

Tesla? Profitability?

Martyn1981

Car_54 wrote: »

Tesla? Profitability?

So much petty denial will give you an Ade a stomach ulcer at this rate, or perhaps 22 of them.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So much petty denial...

Yeh, petty denial of reality. Tesla are making money hand-over-fist, and have been for YEARS!


https://www.statista.com/statistics/272130/net-loss-of-tesla/

I make that a cumulative total of just over $5.5bn between FY2008 and Q1FY18. And, even better, it's going up massively! Of that $5.5bn, nearly half has been in FY2017 and Q1FY2018 alone!

Wow! SO MUCH PROFIT!

(But does anybody know why there's a minus sign in front of it?)

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Yeh, petty denial of reality. Tesla are making money hand-over-fist, and have been for YEARS!


https://www.statista.com/statistics/272130/net-loss-of-tesla/

I make that a cumulative total of just over $5.5bn between FY2008 and Q1FY18. And, even better, it's going up massively! Of that $5.5bn, nearly half has been in FY2017 and Q1FY2018 alone!

Wow! SO MUCH PROFIT!

(But does anybody know why there's a minus sign in front of it?)

Hmm, so CAPEX on new vehicle production lines is now a 'bad thing'. I'll add that to your claims that having an international supercharger network is a 'bad thing', and having a 400,000 order book is also a 'bad thing'.

BTW - Still waiting for that apology, or do you stand by your 22x claim?