Electric cars

Martyn1981

Nice if this means that yet another of the anti-EV myths gets debunked.

American Manganese Positions Itself To Lead The Charge Into EV Battery Recycling

American Manganese (AM) says it can retrieve 100% of the lithium, cobalt, nickel, manganese and aluminum from batteries, like those used in plug-in vehicles, using technology it originally developed to process low-grade manganese ores.

Martyn1981

Articles on the Volvo Polestar and Nissan Leaf (2019).

Polestar 2 From Volvo — Electric Sedan With 350 Mile Range

More Powerful 2019 Nissan LEAF Will Have 200+ Mile Range

Herzlos

A 350 mile range Volvo Crossover would do me perfectly, preferably after 3 years of depreciation


Adrian - What range would an EV need to have for you to brand it sufficient?

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

Adrian - What range would an EV need to have for you to brand it sufficient?

As I've said repeatedly, 300 miles+ real world would be the minimum I'd consider as a replacement for the sensible daily.


As it happens, the last two days have seen a total of about 350 miles go onto the sensible daily. Yesterday was about 200 of those (virtually all non-motorway), with the car left in a fairly solid 1,000+ space car park for 4-5 hours. That car park has 5 charging points, according to ZapMap. We would have parked in a different, 650+ space, car park - which apparently has no charge points - but it was chock-full.

Herzlos

Thanks. So we're within about 2 years of Electric cars being viable?


And if that car park had more charging points, you'd have been perfectly fine on electric?

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

Thanks. So we're within about 2 years of Electric cars being viable?

Hold on while I polish my crystal ball.

And if that car park had more charging points, you'd have been perfectly fine on electric?

If it was not only predictable, but realistic to expect, provision that meets demand nationally...



Increasing charging provision will unleash a lot of increased demand, which will then swamp the increased provision, which when met will then unleash a lot of increased demand, etc etc. Given that the 1,000 space car park I was talking about can be used for up to seven days without revisiting the car (it's a large part of a "destination" city's main public parking), but is also heavily used for day and half-day parking, what proportion of parking spaces would need to have charging available to not run the risk of having to install further provision within a year or two? Given that you need to allow for 40-60kWh+ batteries to recharge within the day, what is the total current provision for that car park?



But we really are just rehashing exactly what I've said several times in this thread previously.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Hold on while I polish my crystal ball.

If it was not only predictable, but realistic to expect, provision that meets demand nationally...

Increasing charging provision will unleash a lot of increased demand, which will then swamp the increased provision, which when met will then unleash a lot of increased demand, etc etc. Given that the 1,000 space car park I was talking about can be used for up to seven days without revisiting the car (it's a large part of a "destination" city's main public parking), but is also heavily used for day and half-day parking, what proportion of parking spaces would need to have charging available to not run the risk of having to install further provision within a year or two? Given that you need to allow for 40-60kWh+ batteries to recharge within the day, what is the total current provision for that car park?

But we really are just rehashing exactly what I've said several times in this thread previously.

Hi

So you're effectively using the VCR (VHS/Betamax) argument ... they'll never catch on until there's a video store on every corner & that can't happen until everyone has a VCR to create enough demand!!

Ah well, I suppose that those involved in the animal feed industry felt just the same as they watched some poor soul waving a flag to warn of the following horseless carriage ...

The global EV market was ~4million units in 2017 and predicted to be close on 30million per year in just over half a decade (yes, that quickly!). Of course, there'll be a mix of various specification vehicles with varying battery capacities so, for most, it's simply a case of taking account of what range best fits their needs for day-to-day motoring in their sourcing decision ... some may be content to accept 100miles and pay less for the package & some will be more restricted by maximising daily driving hours and consider that around 400 miles would be more appropriate ... however, whatever can be achieved there'll always be someone to resist change and continue to argue that whatever is available, it's not good enough for them ...

For ourselves & probably the majority of motorists, the ability to charge an EV at home vastly outweighs the need to charge on a public charging point for the vast majority of the time, after-all, there's no real issue or concerted effort in plugging a 150-200 mile range EV in once per week!

When it comes down to it, I don't really much care for what the anti-EV brigade say for one simple reason ... they're wrong, not just a little wrong some of the time, but completely wrong most of the time - and above that, I've little doubt that many of those posting anti-EV commentary in almost every publication or forum I've come across are aware of the fact, but continue to disrupt because that's what they enjoy, or that's what suits their particular agenda ...

The tide's turned ... time to reflect on what will happen and accept that what will be is inevitable & not maintain a state of denial as the water progressively deepens ....

HTH
Z

AdrianC

zeupater wrote: »

The global EV market was ~4million units in 2017 and predicted to be close on 30million per year in just over half a decade (yes, that quickly!).

Are you sure on that 4m? I'm finding 1.3m EV and PHEV - so "plug-in" EVs, both "pure" and PHEV.
http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/

For comparison, the total global new car market was ~80m cars last year.

The UK new car market was 2.5m cars last year, with 46,500k of those being "plug-in", 13,000 pure EV and 33,500 PHEV.
https://www.goultralow.com/news/press-releases/2017-record-year-electric-plug-car-registrations/

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Are you sure on that 4m? I'm finding 1.3m EV and PHEV - so "plug-in" EVs, both "pure" and PHEV.
http://www.ev-volumes.com/country/total-world-plug-in-vehicle-volumes/

For comparison, the total global new car market was ~80m cars last year.

The UK new car market was 2.5m cars last year, with 46,500k of those being "plug-in", 13,000 pure EV and 33,500 PHEV.
https://www.goultralow.com/news/press-releases/2017-record-year-electric-plug-car-registrations/

Hi

Just 1.3million globally? .... then how come Toyota alone sold 1.52million? ...
https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/corporate/20966057.html

Looks like you've included BEVs & PHEVs, totally missing the HEV sector altogether!

Anyway, the analysis of the rate of increase in sales for various countries is interesting .... you must be very pleased that things are going so well, but if not, you're obviously now aware of the rate of change ... :D

100% increases, that's a rate of change which becomes really significant! ... So how many times can a sheet of paper be folded in half before it effectively becomes impossible to go any further? ... same logic, just inverted ...

HTH
Z

AdrianC

zeupater wrote: »

Just 1.3million globally? .... then how come Toyota alone sold 1.52million? ...
https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/corporate/20966057.html

Looks like you've included BEVs & PHEVs, totally missing the HEV sector altogether!

It does help if you read what I actually write, y'know.


Yes, it's plug-in only.


Do you really count non-plug-in hybrids, with very limited electric-only ranges and performance, as even remotely on the same page as "pure" EVs? Unless it's for pure stat-massaging, then why would you?