£5000 bill for 5 – 6 years of outstanding council tax bill!, Landlords fault !!!

justwondering25

CIS wrote: »

I don't know - a property can only be charged council tax from the effective date it is banded, never before. Has the landlord got the wrong end of the stick somewhere.

I suppose it is possible the VOA have typed the wrong date on the letter and given the correct one to the council - check here and see if it's been updated yet - https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-bands

If you need it. Section 2 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 sets the conditions which must apply on any particular day for Council Tax to be due on the dwelling. This includes the condition of charging for whatever band appears on a valuation list - no entry on to the list, no band and hence no charge.



Regulation 17 and 20 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 also prevent a bill being issues if the property is not shown on a valuation list.


Craig

Wow , just spoken with the council tax office with regards the bill , I asked why has the bill been back dated as the effective date is 29/1/17, they said , but yes you have been living in the property since 2011 , I then quoted your quote :-

Regulation 17 and 20 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 also prevent a bill being issues if the property is not shown on a valuation list.

They said .....Hmmmmmmm good point , I shall ask Person X to have a word with you please can you hold.....time passed.....the same person then came back to me and said ,the back office is looking into this we shall speak with the VOA office and write to you .

I asked about the pending bill date...they said not to worry the bill is now on hold !!!

What is your guess at their next step ?

CIS

justwondering25 wrote: »

Wow , just spoken with the council tax office with regards the bill , I asked why has the bill been back dated as the effective date is 29/1/17, they said , but yes you have been living in the property since 2011 , I then quoted your quote :-

Regulation 17 and 20 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 also prevent a bill being issues if the property is not shown on a valuation list.

They said .....Hmmmmmmm good point , I shall ask Person X to have a word with you please can you hold.....time passed.....the same person then came back to me and said ,the back office is looking into this we shall speak with the VOA office and write to you .

I asked about the pending bill date...they said not to worry the bill is now on hold !!!

What is your guess at their next step ?

Wait and see what they say - any response would be dependent on their reply.

Sounds like you were speaking to one of their front-line staff who are usually only given basic training and so they, sensibly, referred to the query on. Which local authority is it, out of curiosity ?

Craig

justwondering25

Once the council have contacted the VOA , do you think the VOA will move the goal posts and change the effective date on the record and hey presto back to square one ?

Or would they be breaking any rules by moving the goal posts ?

CIS

justwondering25 wrote: »

Once the council have contacted the VOA , do you think the VOA will move the goal posts and change the effective date on the record and hey presto back to square one ?

Or would they be breaking any rules by moving the goal posts ?

If they determine the date was an error they are under a duty to correct it but they have to go after the date the property became a dwelling for banding purposes only (whether occupied or not makes no difference).

Craig

justwondering25

CIS wrote: »

If they determine the date was an error they are under a duty to correct it but they have to go after the date the property became a dwelling for banding purposes only (whether occupied or not makes no difference).

Craig

Okay....just pondering that one...so what if they decided the property had been there since 1991(total non factual example date) , would the tax be back dated that far for my landlord ?

Or will they look at the date on my tenancy and change the date to that date ? although I appreciate that the current bill in my situation would not change.

I am hoping matters would not worsen for the date going backwards.

justwondering25

CIS wrote: »

If they determine the date was an error they are under a duty to correct it but they have to go after the date the property became a dwelling for banding purposes only (whether occupied or not makes no difference).

Craig

I have had a letter from the council this morning , stating that the VOA have confirmed the effective date is not the 29/01/17 but the date my Tenancy commenced , this is a error on their part and they will be sending me confirmation of this to me.

They have further added , that therefore the bills I have already received are correct and require payment as detailed on them.

The bills are dated to be paid on Monday , but no single person discount as been applied and I presume I am within my rights to not pay the bills until the effective date as been corrected?

I have checked the website today , the date still shows on the council tax website as 29/01/17

Is there any thing else I can do in the mean time , other than call the council explain I will pay once the effective date has been corrected and that I need single person discount added to the bills x amount of the time....

CIS

I would ask them to clarify which particular circumstance they using from their own list - http://manuals.voa.gov.uk/corporate/publications/Manuals/CouncilTaxManual/council_tax_man_s2/z-ct-man-sect2-app2.3.html

As far as I can see either Disaggregation Issue (3): Any other case , in which case it's the date of the schedule that should be used, or New dwelling applied, in which case the date of change which should be used.

In either case I don't think the date to be used can be the start of the tenancy as the property was already in existence as a self contained dwelling before that point.

You can ask for a valuation tribunal hearing on the basis of the date the property should be entered in to the list.

Craig

Miss_Samantha

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

I believe that the right to a refund for council tax paid when not legally liable is statutory (I believe you posted the statute once).

Any info on the above?

justwondering25

CIS wrote: »

I would ask them to clarify which particular circumstance they using from their own list - http://manuals.voa.gov.uk/corporate/publications/Manuals/CouncilTaxManual/council_tax_man_s2/z-ct-man-sect2-app2.3.html

As far as I can see either Disaggregation Issue (3): Any other case , in which case it's the date of the schedule that should be used, or New dwelling applied, in which case the date of change which should be used.

In either case I don't think the date to be used can be the start of the tenancy as the property was already in existence as a self contained dwelling before that point.

You can ask for a valuation tribunal hearing on the basis of the date the property should be entered in to the list.

Craig

Hi Craig , thank you for your help and advice , I shall indeed ask them to clarify , lets pretend the went for the new dwelling option , could I be almost asking for further bills to be back dated that could land on my landlords door? I believe he has owned the property since 2007 , but further to that I do not believe the so called annex has ever had planning permission and a retrospective application will be taking place.

Ideally I do not want the bill to worsen for my landlord, I know they can become no worse for me , but I would not want to cause a bigger crisis .

Would you say if I called the council on Monday , to say I would like to deal with this matter via correspondence / email , would they put the bill on further hold , while all issues are dealt with and clarified ? ideally I do not want to have to pay the money then be on the back foot in reclaiming the funds.

CIS

Would you say if I called the council on Monday , to say I would like to deal with this matter via correspondence / email , would they put the bill on further hold , while all issues are dealt with and clarified ? ideally I do not want to have to pay the money then be on the back foot in reclaiming the funds.

Legally the banding has been set and the charge is due so the council can pursue the charge in the meantime, until such time as it is legally altered it remains the 'correct' details. You can ask them to hold but they can say no.

If, for example, they pursued the council tax charge as it wasn't paid then when it came to the obtaining of a liability order the court are not allowed to consider anything to do with valuation (it's specifically written as such in legislation) and so would have to grant the liability order.

I shall indeed ask them to clarify

That's the best option - without knowing their reasoning it's hard to tell.

, could I be almost asking for further bills to be back dated that could land on my landlords door?

If they went back further then the landlord would get the bill. The issue is really that there should be a consistent approach by the VOA, if a date is to be used it should be used without (from their point of view) worrying abut who is getting the bill.

Craig