Are degrees in the UK value for money?

SingleSue

I've found a course in animation at Solent which will take Merit, Merit, Pass or 112 UCAS points (new 2017 scheme of points that is), not a foundation degree.

Ah, think I may have found a possible one....a Foundation degree in digital arts 48 UCAS points or 3 x pass on the extended diploma.

https://www.solent.ac.uk/courses/foundation/foundation-year-in-digital-arts

Or a computing Foundation degree

https://www.solent.ac.uk/courses/foundation/computing-foundation-year?year=2017

Now checked all the universities mentioned, all are Foundation entry (Sheffield Hallam call it an extended degree programme or a prep year prior to starting a full degree). UCLAN actually require Merit, Pass, Pass for their Foundation route for computer/IT related courses.

chucknorris

SingleSue wrote: »

I've found a course in animation at Solent which will take Merit, Merit, Pass or 112 UCAS points (new 2017 scheme of points that is), not a foundation degree.

Ah, think I may have found a possible one....a Foundation degree in digital arts 48 UCAS points or 3 x pass on the extended diploma.

https://www.solent.ac.uk/courses/foundation/foundation-year-in-digital-arts

Or a computing Foundation degree

https://www.solent.ac.uk/courses/foundation/computing-foundation-year?year=2017

Now checked all the universities mentioned, all are Foundation entry (Sheffield Hallam call it an extended degree programme or a prep year prior to starting a full degree). UCLAN actually require Merit, Pass, Pass for their Foundation route for computer/IT related courses.

Thanks, so they were in fact foundation degrees, that explains it.

chucknorris

happyandcontented wrote: »

I can only tell you what I know to be true in this case. It is for entry in Sept 2017 and not through clearing, but an offer from the UCAS application.

I queried it with the student concerned thinking that perhaps he had other quals which I was unaware of but no, he hadn't.

It looks like it wasn't a degree course, it was a foundation degree, see SingleSue's post above.

chucknorris

zagubov wrote: »

Well a foundation year can feed into a degree course. I've been heavily involved with them, and know they can be a gateway into HE, but are not a qualification in their own right..

Foundation degrees seem to be a late arrival in a very crowded HE ecosystem what with Bachelors ordinary/general degrees, Diplomas in HE, HNDs and HNCs all already occupying the educational space below honours degrees already.

I'm concerned they're just a way to rebrand a perfectly worthy sub-degree qualification with an upgraded name, just because the US has a similar system with Associate degrees. I'm not sure how our degree system will maintain its credibility in the European student market with two-year degrees.

I know, we have several foundation degree students join our courses every year (along with HNC students). But they wouldn't get into our first year with 3 BTEC passes, they are a stepping stone onto a degree course.

I don't have anything against foundation degrees, it gives a second chance to students who might not have been trying particularly hard, don't forget they are young and might not have done particularly well due to lack of motivation rather than lack of intelligence.

I didn't really mature until I was in my mid 20's, I completely wasted my time at school, in fact, I wasn't there much. But once I got into my mid 20's I realised what a mess I had made of my life. So I had another try when I was 28, and I ended up getting a first, and went on to become a chartered surveyor, and then I changed career to become a university lecturer. I'm not sure where I be today, if second chances weren't available.

zagubov

chucknorris wrote: »

I know, we have several foundation degree students join our courses every year (along with HNC students). But they wouldn't get into our first year with 3 BTEC passes, they are a stepping stone onto a degree course.

I don't have anything against foundation degrees, it gives a second chance to students who might not have been trying particularly hard, don't forget they are young and might not have done particularly well due to lack of motivation rather than lack of intelligence.

I totally agree about second chances. There are great routes onto degrees for people who need the opportunity. HNCs, HNDs, DipHEs always had degree conversion options. Foundation years onto bachelor degree courses have opened doors. FE college Access courses leading into degrees or foundation years also give this.

But the idea of introducing a sub-bachelors degree as a sort of degree in its own right is a bit worrying. It's very much part of American style (let's call our high school certificates high school diplomas, and lets call our meat sandwich cafes restaurants) way of giving pretentious names for normal standard things.

If we want to go down this path, are we not making our degree system less credible? Three years is already the shortest degree system int the world IIRC. If we want to attract Americans to our universities,well maybe this'll work. Not so sure the rest of the world will be impressed.

happyandcontented

chucknorris wrote: »

Thanks, so they were in fact foundation degrees, that explains it.

Regardless of what Solent say on their website the offer wasn't for the foundation degree, the student was quite clear he was doing a full three year degree course. As I say, I was very surprised too.

chucknorris

happyandcontented wrote: »

Regardless of what Solent say on their website the offer wasn't for the foundation degree, the student was quite clear he was doing a full three year degree course. As I say, I was very surprised too.

He was probably confused about what exactly he had been offered.

Tabbytabbitha

zagubov wrote: »

I knew you'd know it, but I wasn't sure everybody else would get the difference. The BTECs are going up in value compared with A levels.

120 old points might have got someone onto a Foundation year of a degree, which would very much be a sub-degree course.

Don't confuse a foundation year with a Foundation Degree - totally different animals.

chucknorris

zagubov wrote: »

If we want to go down this path, are we not making our degree system less credible?

I think to some extent that has already happened, due to the large numbers of students graduating every year.

I don't blame students for wanting to get their own degree qualifications. But the large numbers does cause me problems during lectures, because the weaker students tend to struggle. I am now trying to devise teaching methods that allow the weaker students support, but at the same time not slowing down the momentum of the modules for the stronger students. I usually give up my lunch time for tutorials for the weaker students, but next year I think that'll have to do more than that.

happyandcontented

chucknorris wrote: »

I think to some extent that has already happened, due to the large numbers of students graduating every year.

I don't blame students for wanting to get their own degree qualifications. But the large numbers does cause me problems during lectures, because the weaker students tend to struggle. I am now trying to devise teaching methods that allow the weaker students support, but at the same time not slowing down the momentum of the modules for the stronger students. I usually give up my lunch time for tutorials for the weaker students, but next year I think that'll have to do more than that.

The other issue is that it seems that the same degrees are not covering the same ground at every university.

For example, one of my sons is doing an MChemEng at a Russell Group university and aside from the entrance criteria being much higher, the course content and depth differs greatly from what his friend is doing for the same degree at a former poly. They were chatting at Christmas and his friend openly said that he would stand no chance of graduating if he was working at that level and to that depth, yet to all intents and purposes they will achieve the same degree.