Are degrees in the UK value for money?

gfplux

Lingua wrote: »

I'm paying 9k a year in tuition fees. Someone who started the year before me is paying 3.5k, yet from what I can tell we receive the exact same services and teaching material - I received notes from a student in the year above and they had covered the same content.

Of course, there's also the fact that the science students here get beautiful new multi-million pound facilities while we get brutalist buildings no longer able to function because of their dilapidated state and the surge of new students that the uni has decided in its wisdom to induct despite no extra capacity.

Excellent value for money!
/s

Lingua

My understanding (please correct me if necessary)
The Government have reduced the amount granted to University's. The Government then allowed the University to increase fees up to a cap to replace this funding.
The theory, I believe, was that the money available for the University would remain about the same.

Tabbytabbitha

justme111 wrote: »

Exactly what I was worried about. I am foreign and find the HE system extremely confusing here. Can someone please advise me on what to look for when assessing HE establishments? Recently I looked at league tables and descriptions; the only parameter I found that could be of value was contact time. I was shocked it can be as low as 15-20 hours a week! All the scores - I know scores are pretty meaningless when looking at schools so I have no reason to believe they have any purpose in higher education.

Contact time isn't a good way of judging, particularly with Humanities degrees. In the past, when standards were higher, contact time was often lower. I went to a plate glass university in the 70s and the compulsory contact time was two hours a week on my (and similar degrees) but we had to put the hours in studying independently.

ETA

I tell a lie - 3 hours a week in year 2 and 3 with an additional, optional lecture programme.

happyandcontented

justme111 wrote: »

Exactly what I was worried about. I am foreign and find the HE system extremely confusing here. Can someone please advise me on what to look for when assessing HE establishments? Recently I looked at league tables and descriptions; the only parameter I found that could be of value was contact time. I was shocked it can be as low as 15-20 hours a week! All the scores - I know scores are pretty meaningless when looking at schools so I have no reason to believe they have any purpose in higher education.

Generally speaking Russell Group universities are a good bet. Then look at the league tables and analyse each component. If they have high entry quals that is an indicator of good standards. Contact time is not the thing to look for per se unless it is for a degree which always has a lot of it; medicine, architecture, dentistry, engineering, law for example. Also facilities (labs, IT) are important although that is subject dependent, and the calibre of teaching. Links to industry, partnerships, all are useful for students to tap into when they graduate.

I agree with the poster who said those who are unaware of the differences and more importantly, the differences in how degrees are perceived by employers, are at a real disadvantage.

Cakeguts

justme111 wrote: »

Exactly what I was worried about. I am foreign and find the HE system extremely confusing here. Can someone please advise me on what to look for when assessing HE establishments? Recently I looked at league tables and descriptions; the only parameter I found that could be of value was contact time. I was shocked it can be as low as 15-20 hours a week! All the scores - I know scores are pretty meaningless when looking at schools so I have no reason to believe they have any purpose in higher education.

Wikipedia is also a good reference. If you look up the history of any university on the site it tells you what they used to be before they changed their name to a university. What you want to look for are the ones that have always been universities, so avoid anything that used to be a college of Arts or a Polytechnic, or a technical college.

Anything that accepts BTEC for the course you want to do is best avoided and you want the course to ask for AAA minimum at A level. These are the universities that well informed students want to get into.

SingleSue

One of the best things to do is to visit the universities, ask questions and ignore the main part of their marketing.

As I have said before, youngest has an unconditional, it could be seen as a marketing tool (and probably is) but he had already made his mind up that that was the place he wanted to be before the offers even started coming in. Their other marketing tool (high achieiver scholorships etc), is what is spurring him on to complete his courses and do as well as he possibly can rather than sit back on his unconditional.

To me, it is much like going to buy a car....the salesperson will try everything to get you to buy what he wants you to but you have to go with what suits you, what is best for you and not be swayed by the sweet talk of the salesperson. Do your research beforehand, weigh up the options carefully and make your decision only after you had weighed up all the options.

The process for youngest was well over a year, probably closer to two years and included hours and hours of research online and in person to get the right fit for him as he has disabilities...the marketing didn't come into it (he actually held what was in effect an unconditional at another university with a higher scholarship/bursary amount but it wasn't quite the right fit for him).

beecher2

justme111 wrote: »

Exactly what I was worried about. I am foreign and find the HE system extremely confusing here. Can someone please advise me on what to look for when assessing HE establishments? Recently I looked at league tables and descriptions; the only parameter I found that could be of value was contact time. I was shocked it can be as low as 15-20 hours a week! All the scores - I know scores are pretty meaningless when looking at schools so I have no reason to believe they have any purpose in higher education.

I take it you looked here
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/
when looking at league tables?

I work in Scotland so nothing about the Careers Service, but here you could go and speak to a Careers Adviser for help.

Are you looking for entry in 2018? Deadline's past for 2017 for the majority of courses, Keep an eye on the UCAS website for open day information.

Cakeguts

SingleSue wrote: »

One of the best things to do is to visit the universities, ask questions and ignore the main part of their marketing.

As I have said before, youngest has an unconditional, it could be seen as a marketing tool (and probably is) but he had already made his mind up that that was the place he wanted to be before the offers even started coming in. Their other marketing tool (high achieiver scholorships etc), is what is spurring him on to complete his courses and do as well as he possibly can rather than sit back on his unconditional.

To me, it is much like going to buy a car....the salesperson will try everything to get you to buy what he wants you to but you have to go with what suits you, what is best for you and not be swayed by the sweet talk of the salesperson. Do your research beforehand, weigh up the options carefully and make your decision only after you had weighed up all the options.

The process for youngest was well over a year, probably closer to two years and included hours and hours of research online and in person to get the right fit for him as he has disabilities...the marketing didn't come into it (he actually held what was in effect an unconditional at another university with a higher scholarship/bursary amount but it wasn't quite the right fit for him).

You do have to have a way though of weeding out the unsuitable ones. If they all charge the same for a degree it is difficult to work out which ones give the best value for money in terms of the complexity of the course. Some of the really unsuitable ones might look really nice especially if they have spent a lot of money since renaming themselves as a university. Basically if someone starts with the ones that have always been universities and that ask for high minimum entrance requirements they are going to be able to weed out the ones that are just there to make money to pay the staff salaries. There are more of the ones that are their to pay staff salaries than there are to teach complex degree courses to students so it takes quite a lot of research to find a university that will offer the kind of degree that a discerning employer is looking for.

Tabbytabbitha

happyandcontented wrote: »

Generally speaking Russell Group universities are a good bet. Then look at the league tables and analyse each component. If they have high entry quals that is an indicator of good standards. Contact time is not the thing to look for per se unless it is for a degree which always has a lot of it; medicine, architecture, dentistry, engineering, law for example. Also facilities (labs, IT) are important although that is subject dependent, and the calibre of teaching. Links to industry, partnerships, all are useful for students to tap into when they graduate.

I agree with the poster who said those who are unaware of the differences and more importantly, the differences in how degrees are perceived by employers, are at a real disadvantage.

Which is one of the truly shocking thing about pretty well abolishing an independent careers service. All the kids from educated families will have parents who appreciate the different status of various universities and will advise their kids accordingly. Those who are new to the sector are left to flounder with either no advice or at the often biased, over egalitarian mindset of their school, who may inform them that there's absolutely no difference in value between a degree from Southampton and one from Southampton Solent.

Cakeguts

westernpromise wrote: »

Yes and no. They may both get a 2.i and the guy from Bash Street University will certainly attempt to pass this off as being the same as a 2.i from a Russell Group. It is unlikely that many employers will be fooled by this. The A Levels results each had will be different and to rate a poly degree as equal to a proper degree would be to say that the guy at the poly had improved from going there and has now caught up the smarter kids from school. Not many will do that. It matters where your 2.i is from.

When I come to power ex-polys won't be allowed to award any class of degree higher than a 4th-class honours.

Can we have the old Polytechnic courses back please? Students need more choice.

beecher2

Tabbytabbitha wrote: »

Which is one of the truly shocking thing about pretty well abolishing an independent careers service. All the kids from educated families who will appreciate the different status of various universities and will advice their kids accordingly. Those who are new to the sector are left to flounder with either no advice or at the often biased, over egalitarian mindset of their school, who may inform them that there's absolutely no difference in value between a degree from Southampton and one from Southampton Solent.

Is there no equivalent to Career Scotland (Skills Development Scotland) down south? How on earth do young people work out how to apply for apprenticeships, jobs or further education without them? We have workshops helping pupils through college applications, I don't know how they would manage without the help of a Careers Adviser.