Are degrees in the UK value for money?

Cakeguts

The sad part of all of this is that if the GCSEs and A levels were the same standard as they were when only a few people went to university students would get better qualifications for free. A 3 year degree at £9000 a year in fees to eventually reach a qualification of an A level taken 40 years ago is really unfair on students but great for university staff.

kabayiri

I'm not sure what can change now, tbh.

Having visited a few Uni's recently, you can't fail to notice just how much money is going into new building. They freely admit that the accommodation blocks and even dining and bar facilities have to be revamped to show prospective students they are competing.

The recruitment process for students is still softly softly, but definitely sales led.

All this development will demand volume numbers of students to attend; to be seen as falling behind the competition could be catastrophic for a Uni.

I chatted to a couple of bright applicants who were being swayed by the combination of an unconditional offer coupled with an award amounting to £2K if they achieved a certain amount of points from A-level exams. It wasn't exactly a high target either.

Voyager2002

Lingua wrote: »

I'm paying 9k a year in tuition fees. Someone who started the year before me is paying 3.5k, yet from what I can tell we receive the exact same services and teaching material - I received notes from a student in the year above and they had covered the same content.

Of course, there's also the fact that the science students here get beautiful new multi-million pound facilities while we get brutalist buildings no longer able to function because of their dilapidated state and the surge of new students that the uni has decided in its wisdom to induct despite no extra capacity.

Excellent value for money!
/s

Lingua

It builds character!

SingleSue

zagubov wrote: »

Achieving bare passes at this level by the end of the qualification means that the student has peaked, and unless something changes, they're not ready for the next step up the educational ladder. You need to achieve merit or better to show potential for progression to a higher level.

I agree which is why I really do think it is a 4 year degree with a foundation year he has been offered and he is confused.

At least I hope so!

The only other thing I can think of is if he has shown capabilities outside of his studies which demonstrates to the university that he has the skill to embark on the course. As in, he may not have the get up and go in the classroom but be a master in his area of computing outside of the classroom.

happyandcontented

SingleSue wrote: »

I agree which is why I really do think it is a 4 year degree with a foundation year he has been offered and he is confused.

At least I hope so!

The only other thing I can think of is if he has shown capabilities outside of his studies which demonstrates to the university that he has the skill to embark on the course. As in, he may not have the get up and go in the classroom but be a master in his area of computing outside of the classroom.

I very much doubt it, but, even if that was the case he would find that hard to demonstrate without an interview, which he didn't have.

westernpromise

happyandcontented wrote: »

They were chatting at Christmas and his friend openly said that he would stand no chance of graduating if he was working at that level and to that depth, yet to all intents and purposes they will achieve the same degree.

Yes and no. They may both get a 2.i and the guy from Bash Street University will certainly attempt to pass this off as being the same as a 2.i from a Russell Group. It is unlikely that many employers will be fooled by this. The A Levels results each had will be different and to rate a poly degree as equal to a proper degree would be to say that the guy at the poly had improved from going there and has now caught up the smarter kids from school. Not many will do that. It matters where your 2.i is from.

When I come to power ex-polys won't be allowed to award any class of degree higher than a 4th-class honours.

Cakeguts

westernpromise wrote: »

Yes and no. They may both get a 2.i and the guy from Bash Street University will certainly attempt to pass this off as being the same as a 2.i from a Russell Group. It is unlikely that many employers will be fooled by this. The A Levels results each had will be different and to rate a poly degree as equal to a proper degree would be to say that the guy at the poly had improved from going there and has now caught up the smarter kids from school. Not many will do that. It matters where your 2.i is from.

When I come to power ex-polys won't be allowed to award any class of degree higher than a 4th-class honours.

The worst thing about all of this is that if a student comes from a family where the parents attended a real university they will get very good advice about which universities to avoid. If however they come from a family where the parents didn't go to university they don't get any advice at all about which universities to avoid. The parents tend to think that the children are doing well because they have got a place at university but this thinking is based on experience of when only a few people went to university and they don't realise that getting into university now is easy. Schools don't tell their students which universities to avoid because they want as many students to go to university as possible for their league tables. The universities that people would do well to avoid use very good marketing to influence the uninformed students to go to them. Someone whose parents didn't go to university and who doesn't realise that the degrees are all different levels of difficulty will find it extremely hard to get the information about not going to certain universities. So there appears to be a big coverup going on as well.

zagubov

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm not sure what can change now, tbh.

Having visited a few Uni's recently, you can't fail to notice just how much money is going into new building. They freely admit that the accommodation blocks and even dining and bar facilities have to be revamped to show prospective students they are competing.

The recruitment process for students is still softly softly, but definitely sales led.

All this development will demand volume numbers of students to attend; to be seen as falling behind the competition could be catastrophic for a Uni.

It seems to be a consequence of our movement towards treating uni education as a good rather than a right. It's just a commodity we can all buy by treating it as an economic activity where borrowing and willingness to accept debt are all that matters.

When it was a right, it had qualifying requirements like a really exceptional school achievement record. Now it's a free-for-all, drawing in money from people who would have been better off with sub-degree qualifications or who could have more cheaply completed OU degrees far more conveniently.

GDB2222

zagubov wrote: »

It seems to be a consequence of our movement towards treating uni education as a good rather than a right. It's just a commodity we can all buy by treating it as an economic activity where borrowing and willingness to accept debt are all that matters.

When it was a right, it had qualifying requirements like a really exceptional school achievement record. Now it's a free-for-all, drawing in money from people who would have been better off with sub-degree qualifications or who could have more cheaply completed OU degrees far more conveniently.

There are false statistics going around, peddled by some universities that really ought to know better. The stats compare average earnings of those with a degree against those without. The comparison is fine, but the inference they draw is that the degree makes the difference. That inference is not at all fine, as the underlying abilities of the two groups are different.

As an example, the ability to finish a degree course implies a reasonable level of determination and application that may well result in higher earnings, with or without a degree.

justme111

Exactly what I was worried about. I am foreign and find the HE system extremely confusing here. Can someone please advise me on what to look for when assessing HE establishments? Recently I looked at league tables and descriptions; the only parameter I found that could be of value was contact time. I was shocked it can be as low as 15-20 hours a week! All the scores - I know scores are pretty meaningless when looking at schools so I have no reason to believe they have any purpose in higher education.