Are degrees in the UK value for money?

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Universities could be accused of "mis-selling" courses to teenagers who have little understanding of money matters, the public spending watchdog says.

National Audit Office head Amyas Morse said young people were taking out large loans to pay for tuition fees without much effective help or advice.

It compared the higher education market to financial products, highlighting how little regulation universities faced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42264434

Arklight

GreatApe wrote: »

So the right is just poor people pretending to be rich and voting the Tories in?

Close to half the population votes tory and they do so as they understand that there are no free lunches. The 80% of the workers of the private sector who are self employed or work for small businesses dont buy what your lot are selling. They do not believe your stories of evil profit when they themselves or the small companies they work for also seek to make a profit.

Generally Tories are more successful because they are more contentious than liberals and lefties

No they don't. What complete bunkum. 13.6 million people voted Tory, for which they got 317 seats. Labour trailed by just 700,000 votes but got 55 fewer seats.


Bear in mind there were actually 32 million votes and the country has 60 odd million people in it.


Actually no, don't - carry on as you are. You're on course for a thrashing at the next election as it is due to being completely out of touch and fielding the worst government in my memory (and you really have achieved something considering I can just about remember John Major's shower) which suits me, and everyone else who cares about the country rather than just themselves.

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

What a fantastic virtual life he leads...

This shows you dont know any well off people
I know a few and they are all for the most part boring people (in the way they live their lives)

The idea that the rich are all driving fast cars or flying around the world with loose women is not true. Most rich people got rich slowly and by working a lot they are not going to throw that away on cars depreciating £50k a year or £50k holidays to impress some bint.

Also someone with £1 million is 'rich' and so is someone with £10 million yet the difference in the lifestyle they can support is of course quite different. I dont know anyone in the £10+ bracket but I know a lot in the £1-5 bracket and you wouldn't be able tell them apart from any other average person apart from maybe the homes they live in.

This is also one of the reasons I say there isn't a huge actual difference between the rich and the middle. Mostly the biggest difference is they live in a more expensive area and maybe a slightly bigger house and sometimes send their kids to public schools. Although all of those are nice they are not quantitatively massively better off than an average person. I went to a state school and have friends who went to public schools cant say they are much better educated than I am. Likewise they grew up in the expensive areas and I grew up in a council house but so what we all had access to decent housing. This is the great aspect of the free markets it provides for everyone good quality goods and services at all price points. A well off person can spend £7 on a coffee and a slice of cake. A poor person can buy the same amount of cake and coffee in a supermarket for £1. A well off person can spend £100 in a restaurant for two people while a poor couple can spend £10 in a supermarket and cook the same at home. A well off person can buy a £50,000 rotary watch the poor person can buy the quarts watch for £10 that will keep time just as accurately.

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

No they don't. What complete bunkum. 13.6 million people voted Tory, for which they got 317 seats. Labour trailed by just 700,000 votes but got 55 fewer seats

.

They got more votes than the next biggest party why are you crying about that?

Actually no, don't - carry on as you are. You're on course for a thrashing at the next election as it is due to being completely out of touch and fielding the worst government in my memory (and you really have achieved something considering I can just about remember John Major's shower) which suits me, and everyone else who cares about the country rather than just themselves.

The whole point of democracy is that power changes hands frequently so I have no doubt labor will get in at some point in the future, and then the tories some point after than will displace labor so so on and so on. We do not have a one party system which is probably a good thing.

Will corncob win in 2022?

Maybe, by then the tories would have been in power for 12 years which is quite some time in a democracy. I hope he does not get in in 2022 and the tories up their game as they have been crap ever since the EU referendum but who knows.

The actual question is can corncob usher in a socialist utopia where all others have failed?
Are you this destructive that you would look at our system and say 95% is great but I am willing to bet the house on changing everything in the hope of increasing that 95% a couple of points?

Arklight

GreatApe wrote: »

This shows you dont know any well off people
I know a few and they are all for the most part boring people (in the way they live their lives)

The idea that the rich are all driving fast cars or flying around the world with loose women is not true. Most rich people got rich slowly and by working a lot they are not going to throw that away on cars depreciating £50k a year or £50k holidays to impress some bint.

Also someone with £1 million is 'rich' and so is someone with £10 million yet the difference in the lifestyle they can support is of course quite different. I dont know anyone in the £10+ bracket but I know a lot in the £1-5 bracket and you wouldn't be able tell them apart from any other average person apart from maybe the homes they live in.

This is also one of the reasons I say there isn't a huge actual difference between the rich and the middle. Mostly the biggest difference is they live in a more expensive area and maybe a slightly bigger house and sometimes send their kids to public schools. Although all of those are nice they are not quantitatively massively better off than an average person. I went to a state school and have friends who went to public schools cant say they are much better educated than I am. Likewise they grew up in the expensive areas and I grew up in a council house but so what we all had access to decent housing. This is the great aspect of the free markets it provides for everyone good quality goods and services at all price points. A well off person can spend £7 on a coffee and a slice of cake. A poor person can buy the same amount of cake and coffee in a supermarket for £1. A well off person can spend £100 in a restaurant for two people while a poor couple can spend £10 in a supermarket and cook the same at home. A well off person can buy a £50,000 rotary watch the poor person can buy the quarts watch for £10 that will keep time just as accurately.

You really haven't got even the foggiest beginning of an idea what it is like to be poor, do you?

Windofchange

GreatApe wrote: »

This shows you dont know any well off people
I know a few and they are all for the most part boring people (in the way they live their lives)

I know quite a few - I used to be a personal trainer for a number of years around the Chelsea / Kensington / Mayfair area, and still socialise every now and again with old clients / do a bit of private work as needed for their relatives / Go to birthday parties. There are two who must be in excess of the 50 million pounds bracket, and I'd be surprised if there were any out of the 7 I can think of under 5 million wealth.

Your rich friends may be boring, but this lot most certainly aren't. It is Ferrari's and private jets all the way, with a few mistresses and scandals thrown in to boot. I went to New York all expenses paid a number of years back as part of the entourage for one of my clients attempt at the New York Marathon. I have sat in Ferrari's and stayed in 10 bedroom villas on the Riviera as part of my private 'work'. I have brushed shoulders with wealth beyond any of our wildest dreams believe me.

You wouldn't catch any of them bragging about it however, and to talk to they are very normal. Anyway, I have no desire to play millionaire friend top trumps. I'm sure Civic as I might call him now will be along shortly with a rebuttal to the above. I have a christmas doctors mess to attend shortly so that'll give him a good couple of days to think of something scathing along the lines of bag of wind or insinuations of me wasting taxpayers money by going out on the lash tonight!

economic

Windofchange wrote: »

And what I do in my spare time is the concern of the taxpayer how? Another winning argument there from you champ.

You are the one who is on here literally 24 / 7, but I suppose being unemployed you have the luxury of time, and not needing to leave your bedroom all day. I find this with my patients - it is always the most unproductive in society who seem to have the most to say about how others should conduct themselves.

I'd love to know your reality. I bet it is a far cry from the life you lead on here.

If you are on this forum or on facebook or on xxx.com looking for a hookup whilst you are meant to be working as per your NHS contract says, you are wasting my money and other taxpayers money. We fund your wages. You work for us the taxpayer. No one else. If the private sector collapses, you will lose your job.

What do you do again? Some admin job in the NHS? I really hope technology advances enough within ten years so all these low skilled jobs are gone. In fact a lot of the more skilled jobs will eventually be gone. And itll be good riddance and a wonderful thing for the taxpayer.

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

You really haven't got even the foggiest beginning of an idea what it is like to be poor, do you?

Fortunately you are correct I have no idea of what it is like to be poor but neither do almost all the other 65 million people in the UK. I doubt you know true poverty.

My parents on the other hand knew poverty for half their lives and my grand parents knew actual poverty for nearly all their lives

Poverty is having to heat water with wood or dung it takes so long and is costly that you literally only bath once a week you probably stink but so does everyone else so you are none the wiser. Its also dirty and dangerous one of my grand parents died a few days after dropping boiling water on themselves water they were heating with an open fire to heat water for the bath. That is poverty. Poverty is having so little food that your height is !!!!!!. That is poverty. Poverty is having no access to law and order and fair courts. Poverty is the state/police/army and other institutions ruining around with little to no checks and balances.

Poverty isn't a obese woman sitting in a TV studio crying that her tax credits are being cut and crying that she needs to go hungry so her children can eat (and her two big dogs too) and later being hired by momentum to continue spreading the propaganda

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

I know quite a few - I used to be a personal trainer for a number of years around the Chelsea / Kensington / Mayfair area, and still socialise every now and again with old clients / do a bit of private work as needed for their relatives / Go to birthday parties. There are two who must be in excess of the 50 million pounds bracket, and I'd be surprised if there were any out of the 7 I can think of under 5 million wealth.

Your rich friends may be boring, but this lot most certainly aren't. It is Ferrari's and private jets all the way, with a few mistresses and scandals thrown in to boot. I went to New York all expenses paid a number of years back as part of the entourage for one of my clients attempt at the New York Marathon. I have sat in Ferrari's and stayed in 10 bedroom villas on the Riviera as part of my private 'work'. I have brushed shoulders with wealth beyond any of our wildest dreams believe me.

You wouldn't catch any of them bragging about it however, and to talk to they are very normal. Anyway, I have no desire to play millionaire friend top trumps. I'm sure Civic as I might call him now will be along shortly with a rebuttal to the above. I have a christmas doctors mess to attend shortly so that'll give him a good couple of days to think of something scathing along the lines of bag of wind or insinuations of me wasting taxpayers money by going out on the lash tonight!

So they dont talk about it they are all honorable and the good type of rich
All they do is drive fast cars and shag their young mistresses and take their servants to birthday parties and new york. Your type of rich people you think are doing good things with their wealth

Sure these people exist I dont really care what they do
However they are the minority.
The more common rich or well off those in the £1-£5m bracket are mostly not like that

westernpromise

Wind of Change is looking for a reason to hate, envy and demonise people who've made more money than him because it justifies his arguing for a predatory state that will rob them and give him their money. He needs to paint such people as decadent and undeserving.

The fact is that someone who seeks a job that's fun or easy and then spends every last penny they earn is going to end up poorer than someone who pursues a lucrative line of work and saves what he can. One has done nothing much to accumulate and has spent the lot, while the other has done the opposite. If you're the former you need some sort of excuse to envy and rob the latter.

Leftism is basically an electoral franchise tailored for the envious, who amount to nothing, never will, hate those who do, and who need a way to dress the basest imaginable vice up into a virtue, for harbouring which they can applaud themselves when they know in their hearts their views are simply shameful.

We will always have leftists in the same way that as long as there are houses, we will have burglars. A leftist is just a burglar who is too grand to hobnob with fences.