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Are degrees in the UK value for money?

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Comments

  • kabayiri
    kabayiri Posts: 22,740 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
    GreatApe wrote: »
    ...
    Poverty isn't a obese woman sitting in a TV studio crying that her tax credits are being cut and crying that she needs to go hungry so her children can eat (and her two big dogs too) and later being hired by momentum to continue spreading the propaganda

    I agree with you on the poverty assessment above.

    But...it isn't to say that living on low income isn't stressful. Debt levels are high and the lower income groups pay heavily for borrowed money.

    Maybe it was a simpler existence in years gone by. The idea of a wage packet every Thursday really did make sense for some (unless you went down the pub like my Uncle and drank most of it away before Friday!).
  • GreatApe
    GreatApe Posts: 4,452 Forumite
    edited 8 December 2017 at 8:28PM
    There are no functional poor people in the uk.
    Even a single mother on benefits can live a very decent life in the UK

    There are of course dysfunctional poor people, there are dysfunctional middle income people and dysfunctional rich people. Almost all of our real problems in the uk are from dysfunctional individuals or families.

    Addiction is a big part of it. A true alcoholic or a true gambling addict is going to have it very tough often but not always the addiction is what makes them poor. It is not the poverty that makes them addicts else you wouldn't have refugees and migrants who dont speak a word of English yet manage to keep their homes and children in order.

    There are also of course simply liars in the UK and their apologists who plead poverty. Like the ignorant obese fat woman that had a go at a tory MP on question time. The BBC later did an interview in her home where the obese women repeated that she had to go hungry so her kids could eat. The dim reporter was just nodding along like a donkey. Not only was she obese there were two large dog in the background eating away. How serious is poverty when a single mother can 1: pretend to be working as a self employed nail artist part time 2: be obese 3: afford to have two large dogs and 4: still cry not just poverty but abject poverty so much so that she goes to bed hungry so the kids and the dogs can eat

    The lefties cry crocodile tears. So much so that momentum took that fat lady and made her the head of some regional momentum group.

    What needs to be done is accept we have no actual poverty in the UK and understand that the people with real problems in the UK have problems which are almost exclusively to do with having dysfunctional lives/families. Those people should be helped getting their lives together but its got little to do with monetary poverty
  • GreatApe
    GreatApe Posts: 4,452 Forumite
    kabayiri wrote: »
    I agree with you on the poverty assessment above.

    But...it isn't to say that living on low income isn't stressful. Debt levels are high and the lower income groups pay heavily for borrowed money.

    I am not convinced that poor people in the UK have to live a stressed life
    I say this as I know families on benefits and they keep their homes and their kids in good order
    Sure they might have to shop at Aldi rather than waitrose or they may not be able to eat out much if at all but those are not necessities.

    I am not sure debt is a big concern for the poor people on benefits etc do not typical take credit card debts or mortgages etc. Also its better that credit exists rather than does not exist it gives potential choice which is always better than no choice.
    Maybe it was a simpler existence in years gone by. The idea of a wage packet every Thursday really did make sense for some (unless you went down the pub like my Uncle and drank most of it away before Friday!).

    Life was harder in the past. Go back 2+ generations and most people were poor go back 5+ generations and even in Britain the superpower of the world most people were as poor as Africans are today.

    Perhaps the only thing that was better is that most people followed a traditional path they got a job at age 15/16 got married and had a few kids in their early 20s and that gave them purpose. Now you are at school until 22 and young men and women go around acting like teenagers until they are 30 and many more are becoming eternal teenagers with little to no responsibility and just coasting as if it is groundhog day and each year that passes they get no older. the additional 6-7 years of education is partly perhaps mostly to blame for this. Maybe a third of women who graduate today will end up childless and alone what a world educated so highly in media studies and what you have to show for it at age 40 is two cats and a resentment to life.
  • Cakeguts
    Cakeguts Posts: 7,627 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 December 2017 at 1:42AM
    GreatApe wrote: »
    I am not convinced that poor people in the UK have to live a stressed life
    I say this as I know families on benefits and they keep their homes and their kids in good order
    Sure they might have to shop at Aldi rather than waitrose or they may not be able to eat out much if at all but those are not necessities.

    I am not sure debt is a big concern for the poor people on benefits etc do not typical take credit card debts or mortgages etc. Also its better that credit exists rather than does not exist it gives potential choice which is always better than no choice.



    Life was harder in the past. Go back 2+ generations and most people were poor go back 5+ generations and even in Britain the superpower of the world most people were as poor as Africans are today.

    Perhaps the only thing that was better is that most people followed a traditional path they got a job at age 15/16 got married and had a few kids in their early 20s and that gave them purpose. Now you are at school until 22 and young men and women go around acting like teenagers until they are 30 and many more are becoming eternal teenagers with little to no responsibility and just coasting as if it is groundhog day and each year that passes they get no older. the additional 6-7 years of education is partly perhaps mostly to blame for this. Maybe a third of women who graduate today will end up childless and alone what a world educated so highly in media studies and what you have to show for it at age 40 is two cats and a resentment to life.


    There have always been people who lack motivation. What the media studies courses do is allow students who have no motivation to go to university to study for a degree that needs no motivation. Basically the universities are making money out of these types of students. They mop up all the courses that no one with any form of motivation would want to do.

    You then finish up with people who have no motivation to do anything but who think that they are owed something for doing the degree. It must be very stressful to find that you have spent three years doing something that leads nowhere especially if you lack motivation because you will never get out of the situation. They tend to be still living in shared houses or bedsits into their 40s and 50s.

    The problem is that if you have no motivation to do anything you won't understand how people get better degrees and then better jobs. They must think that either they have been unlucky or that people don't recognise how good they are because they have a degree.
  • gfplux
    gfplux Posts: 4,985 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Hung up my suit!
    GreatApe wrote: »
    Lots

    One of the reasons for the concentration of wealth into main cities over the last tow decades is the university factor.

    Perhaps as many as 500,000 people in London alone work directly or indirectly in higher education and its majority concentrated in zone 1

    This is one of the reasons why inner London has grown in price twice as much as outer London. Doubling university student numbers doesn't help Enfield all that much but it does help boost prices in Hackney/Islington/Kensington/Westminster/etc

    Government express concern that the South East of England is a magnet not only to people from overseas but also to the rest of Britain. However successive Governments have done nothing about it.
    I had forgotten that Universities are just one small part of the magnet.
    There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.
  • I've lived and worked in Birmingham in the past and while I still have an abiding affection for the place - it's a dump. Birmingham is basically south London, without London.

    There are good reasons everybody who wants to be in the UK wants to be in the SE.
  • GunJack
    GunJack Posts: 11,854 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    There are good reasons everybody who wants to be in the UK wants to be in the SE.

    err...no, no and thrice NO to that one. No way on earth I'd rather be in the SE than where I am, and tbh, I don't think you'll find (m)any up this way who would...
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple :D
  • Arklight
    Arklight Posts: 3,182 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
    GreatApe wrote: »
    Fortunately you are correct I have no idea of what it is like to be poor but neither do almost all the other 65 million people in the UK. I doubt you know true poverty.

    My parents on the other hand knew poverty for half their lives and my grand parents knew actual poverty for nearly all their lives

    Poverty is having to heat water with wood or dung it takes so long and is costly that you literally only bath once a week you probably stink but so does everyone else so you are none the wiser. Its also dirty and dangerous one of my grand parents died a few days after dropping boiling water on themselves water they were heating with an open fire to heat water for the bath. That is poverty. Poverty is having so little food that your height is !!!!!!. That is poverty. Poverty is having no access to law and order and fair courts. Poverty is the state/police/army and other institutions ruining around with little to no checks and balances.

    Poverty isn't a obese woman sitting in a TV studio crying that her tax credits are being cut and crying that she needs to go hungry so her children can eat (and her two big dogs too) and later being hired by momentum to continue spreading the propaganda

    Amazing, you've just eradicated poverty (in your mind).

    Are you going to heal the sick next (presumably by claiming no one is sick)?

    I'm not very keen on dogs. While you're about it can you claim there aren't any, then my local park will be much nicer.

    Oh yeah, fat chavs hur hur.

    Bless.
  • Windofchange
    Windofchange Posts: 1,172 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    economic wrote: »
    If you are on this forum or on facebook or on xxx.com looking for a hookup whilst you are meant to be working as per your NHS contract says, you are wasting my money and other taxpayers money.

    I agree. What's your point?
    economic wrote: »
    We fund your wages. You work for us the taxpayer. No one else. If the private sector collapses, you will lose your job.

    You don't fund anything as you're unemployed. :rotfl:

    I think you'll find that people in the NHS pay taxes too. Some of us quite a lot. None of my tax money goes into funding the NHS? It will no doubt come as news to you that quite a lot of the NHS is privatised! Have a look at the Virgin Care website as your starter for 10. Yup, Mr Branson is providing NHS services in England. Is Virgin public sector? What was your point again?
    economic wrote: »
    What do you do again? Some admin job in the NHS? I really hope technology advances enough within ten years so all these low skilled jobs are gone. In fact a lot of the more skilled jobs will eventually be gone. And itll be good riddance and a wonderful thing for the taxpayer.

    Yup, that's right, I'm the tea boy. I'm currently doing a Msc at UCL (as per a recent post) in advanced tea pouring and paper filing. Wonder what the demand for python will be in 10 years time once AI starts thinking for itself...
  • economic
    economic Posts: 3,002 Forumite
    edited 9 December 2017 at 2:53PM
    I agree. What's your point?



    You don't fund anything as you're unemployed. :rotfl:

    I think you'll find that people in the NHS pay taxes too. Some of us quite a lot. None of my tax money goes into funding the NHS? It will no doubt come as news to you that quite a lot of the NHS is privatised! Have a look at the Virgin Care website as your starter for 10. Yup, Mr Branson is providing NHS services in England. Is Virgin public sector? What was your point again?



    Yup, that's right, I'm the tea boy. I'm currently doing a Msc at UCL (as per a recent post) in advanced tea pouring and paper filing. Wonder what the demand for python will be in 10 years time once AI starts thinking for itself...


    all i am saying is are you a net contributor to this economy or a net taker? are we getting value for the services you provide to us? does your output exceed what we pay you? me thinks not.

    EDIT: actually i do still pay income tax unfortunately :(

    Also i have paid a bucket load of taxes whilst i was employed under PAYE. probably more then a lot in their lifetimes will.

    significant taxes i have paid include:
    - income tax on 100k gross over 10 years
    - stamp duty twice on properties both worth around 600k
    plus many more smaller ones that add up to a lot.

    i think my effective tax rate was something like 60% i remember calculating a whilst back when i was working.
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