Ukpc parking fine - failed popla!! Help!

Redx

Anneeka wrote: »

I recently received another letter for the same case but on a different day. This letter now asks me to submit another popla appeal.

Is there any point in me doing this and tying the other claim in with it and actually doing it properly this time with the help of everyone on here?

YES , DEFINITELY

but this time you draft a better one up with assistance from here , a winner this time (and for any more you receive too)

no you cannot tie the other one in , but from now on you put up a good appeal and win , the lost case is water under the bridge for now , hence why you complain strongly to the MA about that one and all the rest (like you see in that blog)

Anneeka

Okay this gives some hope!

What should the keeper include in the popla appeal?

Their reason for rejection was the fact that on entering the car park it was the keepers responsibility to make sure they fully understood the terms and conditions for parking. Even though they acknowledge the fact that The permit number was displayed and explained that it was the keepers bay to park in

Fruitcake

Anneeka wrote: »

Okay this gives me hope!

What should I include in the popla appeal?

Their reason for rejection was the fact that on entering the car park it was my responsibility to make sure I fully understood the terms and conditions for parking. Even though they acknowledge the fact that I gave them my permit number and explained that it was my bay to park in the fact remains that I knowingly parked my vehicle without meeting the terms.

Appeal point 1 is the lease/tenancy agreement you quoted above, plus information gleaned from court cases such as the Jopson case which can be found on the Parking-Prankster's blogspot.

Other appeal points can be found in Post 3 of the NEWBIES thread. These are template points that you just tweak where applicable to your case. Show us your draft before submitting it.

Redx

Anneeka wrote: »

Okay this gives me hope!

What should I include in the popla appeal?

Their reason for rejection was the fact that on entering the car park it was my responsibility to make sure I fully understood the terms and conditions for parking. Even though they acknowledge the fact that I gave them my permit number and explained that it was my bay to park in the fact remains that I knowingly parked my vehicle without meeting the terms.

as mentioned above (and people will keep saying it) - you read and follow that NEWBIES sticky thread , reading the examples etc in the popla post ( post #3 )

any POPLA appeal will be mainly based on the following criteria :-

NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
NO AUTHORITY
POOR OR INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
BPA CoP failures
NTK failures
POFA2012 failures

information about how the lease overrides any MA parking agreement

and possibly other legal arguments too , the more the merrier

DO NOT USE THE LAST ONE YOU FAILED WITH

Coupon-mad

Post #3 of the NEWBIES thread has POPLA template appeal points. That's why they are there. DO NOT refer to the other one.

Anneeka

Hi,

Thanks for your help.


The keeper has looked in to the "NEWBIES" thread as recommended and have gathered some material that they believe will be of relevance.


The material that they currently have are 3 PDFs relating to 3 cases that occurred with similar circumstances to me. The 3 cases are - "UKPC v Peenith" , "Pace v Noor" , "Jopson v Homeguard"


Do they simply need to include these as attachments for the appeal?


The keeper have looked through the links included above and have compiled the following statement by using certain extracts as templates-


"My existing lease gave me full permission to park in the allocated spot as can be seen in my tenancy agreement (Attached) UKPC had no right no unilaterally override this and as can be seen in my tenancy agreement there was no clauses laid out referring to the need to have a permit displayed.
A contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. If this gives the resident the unfettered right to park then this cannot be altered later, for instance by requiring a permit to park.
There is a large body of case law which establishes this. In Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011 it was found the managing agent could not reduce the amount of parking spaces available to residents. In Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E, on appeal it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to temporarily stop near the building entrance for loading/unloading.
In both Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] & Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park."



Should they convert this to a PDF and attach it too? If so, should they leave the premade text boxes empty on the POPLA appeal? Is there anything else of relevance that they can include in my above statement to improve the likelihood of success?


Also, with regards to the other PCN where the keeper failed the POPLA appeal, should they pay the £100 and then try to create a counter claim to recover this or should they simply ignore any further attempts at communication and keep an eye out for court summons? In the attached links above they came across instances where people had been successful in claiming £250 -£750 for each time that their data was obtained without a valid fine, is this applicable to their circumstance?

Really appreciate your time and assistance in the matter.


Thanks.

Anneeka

Hi,


Do you believe that the signage would be eligible for grounds for dismissal? The parking permit clause and £100 figure are both in a very small font.


Thank you

Fruitcake

I hope that isn't the whole of your PoPLA appeal. It should be HUGE and make the scammers give up as not worth the effort. The "inadequate signage" appeal point alone is much bigger than your previous post.

You should not reveal the driver's identity so you need to edit your post above before the scammers see it and take a screen grab. You cannot claim "no keeper liability" if you give away the driver's details.

You could quote the cases you mention, provide a link to the whole case, and then quote the relevant bit concerning lease trumps parking company Ts and Cs and leave it at that, or include the PDFs if you really want to weigh the scammers down.

For the purposes of showing us the draft, don't include the PDFs.

Don't pay the other one. Win this one then you can use the result if the scammers are stupid enough to try court.

Fruitcake

Anneeka wrote: »

Hi,


I have uploaded the image that UKPC attached for my PCN showing the signage.

Do you believe that the signage would be eligible for grounds for dismissal? The parking permit clause and £100 figure are both in a very small font.


imgur
.com/a/iO4lm (please remove the " ")


Thank you

http://imgur.com/a/iO4lm

You challenge the signage and point out where it fails to meet the BPA CoP. This is already done for you in the NEWBIES template appeal points. It is up to the scammers to prove you are wrong.

"The parking permit clause and £100 figure are both in a very small font, high up, and not in the driver's line of sight."

You need your own pics of the entrance signs, and any images of signs from the driver's point of view showing why the driver wouldn't have seen them.

Anneeka

Hi,


Thank you again for your help.


I will do as you have suggested and keep you updated with the new draft once it's ready.


Which part of my post is revealing and needs to be edited?