Gladstone solicitor letter in relation to Parking patrol fine

rebeccaeliza

Hi,

In january 2015 I moved into my flat which I have a mortgage on and as part of my property I purchased one of the parking spaces for a £15000 premium, so I am the joint leaseholder of the space. In september 2015 I received a parking ticket for not displaying a recently issued vehicle pass in this space. The Vehicle pass had only been issued the week before I received the ticket and I was on holiday at the time, clearly it was impossible for me to display the ticket until I returned to Manchester on the 12 th of September which was when I came across the fine on my car.

I am still paying both Ground Rent and Service Charge on the space also. I complied with the rules I was initially given when I first moved in it was only later in 2015 around the time when I got the fine that the builder managers hired a company to patrol the carpark due to people parking in the wrong spaces.I was not given a reasonable chance to even read the amendments, nevermind comply by displaying the parking pass, which was sat in my letterbox whilst I was away. As soon as I returned from my holiday I displayed the pass and haven't had an issue since. I appealed the fine which got rejected as they said there were bright yellow contractual signs saying I needed to display my permit, my argument was these were put up whilst my car was already parked in the space and I didn't have chance to see them when I was away.

I now haven't heard anything about it for months, until just last week when I get a letter from gladstone solicitors saying I need to pay them £150 or they will submit a claim against me, if I felt I was in the wrong I would pay. But its my space after all where I park my car everyday and its clear that its mine as I have all the relevant documents. I just don't understand how they can try fine me for parking in my own space just for the fact I didn't display a permit given straight away, even though at the start they didn't even require a permit.

I really don't know what to do, are they going to succeed if they pursue me with this?

System

to even read the amendments

How were the amendments presented? As a change to the lease Did they come from the Managing Agents/builder managers(?)

Get your lease out and read it with regards to parking.

Is this Urban Bubble?

Coupon-mad

rebeccaeliza wrote: »

as part of my property I purchased one of the parking spaces for a £15000 premium, so I am the joint leaseholder of the space...

I really don't know what to do, are they going to succeed if they pursue me with this?

Well they won't succeed if you defend this well and play your cards right (you can counterclaim if they start proceedings or you could beat them to it and claim now for data misuse) - i.e. they should never have processed your data at all because you are the joint leasehold landowner and you didn't 'agree' anywhere in that contract, to pay parking charges over and above your purchase price and ground rent for that space.

Nothing was mentioned in your purchase documents about extra terms on parking signage forming a strict part of the contract so a dodgy rogue ticketer can't bolt on random terms later, after you bought the leasehold to the space. That would require a variation of Deed, to which they are not a party.

Read this:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/ukpc-cancel-1500-of-residential-charges.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/resident-counterclaims-against-ukpc-for.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

and this about suing under the DPA for £750 or so!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5585388

and a Reality 'star'(?) who was taken to court in her absence without her knowing (she'd moved away) and then she had the CCJ set aside and won (a stressful way to go about it but all too common and an 'old addresses' abuse of the MCOL system that the Govt has recently pledged to end):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5588781

Bottom line - you DID NOT have to agree to display any permit. IN your shoes I would have refused and opted out of the unneeded 'regime' as it was of no concern and you have primacy of contract. Your lease was never varied and a third party's signs and alleged charges for trespassers (which is the purported aim of the scheme, albeit parking firms don't think so) are of no consequence to you.

These cases from parking firms are like a ticking time bomb for them. Join us in seeing this off.

Can you answer IamEmanresu's questions? We can help. Tell us what the lease to the parking space says (all the blurb about your rights and grants).

safarmuk

Agree with the others, you are looking for clauses in your lease that say things like:
* "... right to exclusive use of the Parking Space for the purpose of parking a private motor vehicle ..."
* "... right to use Visitors spaces on a first come first served basis ..."
* "... right to go pass and re-pass at all times and for all purposes of access to and egress from the [flat] ..."
* "... right to peaceful enjoyment ..."
If you have them this will be very defendable ...

... the issue really though is you shouldn't have to defend this and it never should have got to this point!

Any Management Company who actually had the best interest of the estate in mind would have a process in place where they could just immediately cancel tickets sent to them by genuine residents, visitors or contractors.

Have you spoken to the Management Agent? If not ring them and explain and ask them to cancel the ticket, if they try to fob you off then go to the Freeholder and complain, what they have implemented is not in any way currently reasonable and is definitely not beneficial to you! Also speak to your fellow residents, the more people who complain the better (it could be them or one of their friends visiting next).

rebeccaeliza

Good evening,

Sorry for my delay in response, thanks for getting back to me in regard to this.

The amendments were presented by email initially by the property manager who is urban bubble, not as an actual amendment to any lease.

I'm just currently reading through my lease now... but I'm not too sure what I'm looking for really.

Under the lessors covenants its says under quiet enjoyment "That the lessee paying Rent and observing and performing the said covenants conditions and provisions herein shall and may (subject and without prejudice to the rights of re-entry herein contained) peacefully possess and utilise the Car Parking Space for the Term without lawful interruption from or by the Lessor or any person rightfully claiming through under or in trust for it"

Should I be looking in the lessee's covenants for my rights? as I can't seem to see anything that is relevant.

I did initially speak to the management company when I first got the fine but they said I would have to appeal through the appeals process and that they couldn't do anything about it.

Thanks again for any advice

mark.taylor

One of my friend had similar situation. He wrote letter to the Parking operator and they cancelled the PCN. Contact the Parking operator and explain the situation.

System

One of my friend had similar situation. He wrote letter to the Parking operator and they cancelled the PCN. Contact the Parking operator and explain the situation.

Contact Urban Bubble and get them to cancel.

This is the UKPPO contract at UB sites. Point out clause 5 to them and if they do not arrange for a cancellation you may want to claim against both UKPPO and UB for interference with your lease.

1: You/We will erect contractual notices in clear positions around the land (the site as specified below) and at all kept free from any obstructions.
2: You/We can issue a parking charge notice of £100.00 (reduced to £60.00 if paid within 14 days) to all vehicles parking on the land in contravention of the terms displayed on the contractual warning signs. You will receive a commission £0 per paid parking charge. (Delete as appropriate)
3: We agree to process and enforce all tickets issued on the land stated in this agreement.
4: You authorize us to take legal action against any drivers charged for unauthorized parking.
5: You can request to cancel any ticket within 14 days from the date of issue free of charge. If you cancel after 14 you will pay to us a £10.00 administration charge.
6: If you are to receive compensation from the issuing of parking charge tickets, this will be paid by cheque sent the 15th of the month for payments received in the previous month. Otherwise we will retain all monies collected.
7: You will not instruct any other car parking enforcement organisation whilst this license is in force.
8: This License can be terminated in writing with 28 days notice. All parking charges issued within this period will enforced under normal license conditions.
9: We will not refund any paid parking charge tickets.
10: We are liable for all costs incurred in the enforcement of all parking charge tickets.
11: You must notify us if the ownership of the land is to change and this contract will terminate on the expiry of 28 written notice of any prospective change of ownership to the land.
12: We will not enforce any parking charges until we are in receipt of a signed customer license agreement.
13: We are bound by the Data Protection Act not to disclose to you any information we obtain from the DVLA unless required by law to do so.
14: You/We have read and agree to comply with the Accredited Operator Schemes Code of Practice at all times.
15: This agreement will stay in force for a period of 36 months unless cancelled under clause 8.

rebeccaeliza

So you reckon I should contact UB asking to cancel the fine in relation to point 5? How or where did you find the contract between UB and UKPPO? the contact I can see up in the car park statesParking restricted to vechiles displaying valid parking patrol permit only..

Enforcement in operation 24 hours

This land is private property and the parking is managed by UK Parking Patrol Office.
UK parking patrol office accept no responsibility for the loss or damage to vehicles parked in this parking area. By failure to comply with the above terms and conditions you agree to pay a parking charge notice.

FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS WILL RESULT IN A £100 PARKING CHARGE NOTICE BEING ISSUED (REDUCED TO £60 IF PAID WITHIN 14 DAYS OF ISSUE)

Failure to pay within 28 days will result in the registered keeper debts being requested from the DVLA. Additional charges may apply.

The property manager was the one who rejected my claim to cancel back in September 2015 - this is what he said.

Good afternoon Rebecca,

Thank you for your email - I am sorry to hear you have received a ticket however the parking procedure was explained on signage throughout the development and via letter,, once cars are registered permit were put in your post-box the same day to be displayed in the car.
Therefore should you feel you wish appeal this you would need to do this through parking patrols appeals process, I can't cancel any tickets issued.

My appeal to UKPPO was rejected, I then sent another letter to UKPPO which I didn't get a response then the last letter I got was about march 2016 from a debt collection agency DRP and then now almost 10 months later a letter from Gladstone's.

What should I do in terms of the letter from Gladstone, they specify I need to respond within 14 days or pay within 14 days and I'm running out of time to respond to them which I'm worried about? should I send them a letter?

In my lease it does say in the general provisions

"The lessor shall be entitled to employ directly or indirectly such persons firms or companies whether whole or part time as may be reasonably necessary to carry out any duties which he Lessor may require in the performance of its obligations under this lease or the for the general conduct management and security of the Estate and all parts thereof including(without prejudice to the generality of the forgoing) the employment of professional managing agents accountants or other professional persons. The Lessor shall be entitled to enter into any arrangements it deems necessary for the efficient and proper organisation and running of the Estate either on its own or in relation to any adjoining or neighbouring premises

The lessor or its managing agent may in its or their absolute discretion withhold add to extend vary or make any alterations in the rendering of the services or any of them from to time as the Lessor or its managing agents may n its or their discretion deem it desirable so to do for the more efficient conduct and management of the Estate or generally for improving the quality and standard of the Estate"

The Lessor may at any time or times during the Term in the interests of good development management impose such reasonable regulations of general application regarding the estate as it may in its absolute discretion thin fit (so that any such regulations shall not conflict with this Lease or with the covenants rules and regulations for the time being in force relating thereto"

However no specific mention to having to display a permit anywhere.

I would upload pictures of documents and emails but it won't let me as I'm a new user.

rebeccaeliza

IamEmanresu wrote: »

Contact Urban Bubble and get them to cancel.

This is the UKPPO contract at UB sites. Point out clause 5 to them and if they do not arrange for a cancellation you may want to claim against both UKPPO and UB for interference with your lease.

I actually received the charge 03/09/2015, I feel like all the letters they have sent and all this hassle they aren't going to back down now, so I just feel so pressured into just paying £150 to them for a space that is actually mine. Ridiculous

Castle

rebeccaeliza wrote: »

I actually received the charge 03/09/2015, I feel like all the letters they have sent and all this hassle they aren't going to back down now, so I just feel so pressured into just paying £150 to them for a space that is actually mine. Ridiculous

In September 2015 UKPPO were members of the BPA and should have provided you with a POPLA code when you appealed.

Do the signs say UKPPO Ltd or just UKPPO, as these are two different legal entities.

rebeccaeliza

Castle wrote: »

In September 2015 UKPPO were members of the BPA and should have provided you with a POPLA code when you appealed.

Do the signs say UKPPO Ltd or just UKPPO, as these are two different legal entities.

They were UKPPO Ltd, I never received a POPLA code from what I recall.