Advice about battling with letting agency and giving notice

stardust09

Hi,

I have decided to leave my shared house, but it's a complicated situation and when I spoke to my [STRIKE]really useless, money-grabbing sharks[/STRIKE] letting agency today, they didn't know what to do. I need to be clued up so I can negotiate successfully with them.

Background info: four of us are on a joint tenancy agreement. It is currently a fixed term AST and expires on 12 February.

The agency really should have written to us by mid December to ask us if we wanted to stay or give notice. In reality, they left it until 17 January, then said in their letter that we have to give 2 months notice, then in the two options on the response form, it says: a) I wish to renew and enclose my £60 renewal fee, or b) I will be leaving at the end of my fixed term.

I had been hoping that they would have forgotten about the renewal so the tenancy agreement would have gone onto a rolling contract with only one month's notice required as from 12 February (which would have fitted in with my plans perfectly), but we don't have that option: it's either that we all renew or all leave (as one group of joint tenants).

I am in the process of buying a place but have no idea yet when it will be sorted out. I'm hoping around 8-10 weeks' time. I do not want my name on a new 6 month tenancy agreement as I don't want to be liable for potentially 5 months' rent after I leave.

My housemates want to stay. The letting agency won't let me stay if I'm not named on the agreement. I asked if I could be a permitted occupier, to get around that, but they said that they didn't think they could do that (although, oddly, it was fine only a few months ago when someone else moved into the house mid-contract!). My housemates wouldn't want me to move out at the end of the fixed term as they'd be really stuffed if I left in just 4 weeks time (and I'd also be homeless!).

The agency won't move the date of the fixed term agreement as they need it to eventually end in August 2019 when the owners' contract with them expires.

I can't give my notice in yet as I don't know when I'm moving and also the sale might fall through (seems unlikely so far as it's a straightforward chain-free process but it's very early days and I need my solicitor's Report on the Title to ensure she hasn't found any lethal pitfalls in the lease).

Even if I did give in my notice now, there is the situation that my housemates will still have to renew by 12th February and only have three names on the contract, whilst I'm still sitting out my notice period for an extra month. As we're all on one contract, I can't just sit and not renew and end up on a rolling tenancy whilst they renew and go onto an AST.

As my agency don't seem to have factored situations like this into their contract renewals, does anyone have any advice? I know it sounds a complicated scenario. I refuse to sign up for another six months, especially as their hefty £395 admin fee for new tenants is likely to make it more difficult for my housemates to re-let my room quickly. If we were all on separate contracts, it would have made life much easier... I hate letting agencies.

:eek:

Guest101

You're wrong. The agency didn't need to write to you. Either you all leave on Feb 12, or you give notice on Feb 13th, to end tenancy and you all leave.

Or you negotiate a tenancy assignment

Or you continue to live monthly

G_M

stardust09 wrote: »

Hi,

I have decided to leave my shared house,.......

Background info: four of us are on a joint tenancy agreement. It is currently a fixed term AST and expires on 12 February.
clear

The agency really should have written to us by mid December to ask us if we wanted to stay or give notice.
Why? No notice is needed as the tenancy ends on 12/2/17 (unless the tenants stay)

In reality, they left it until 17 January, then said in their letter that we have to give 2 months notice,
Wrong. It's a fixed term with a fixed end date.
then in the two options on the response form, it says: a) I wish to renew and enclose my £60 renewal fee, or b) I will be leaving at the end of my fixed term.
It ignore the 3rd option:
c) I wish to stay on a Statutory Periodic (monthly) Tenancy for no fee

I had been hoping that they would have forgotten about the renewal so the tenancy agreement would have gone onto a rolling contract with only one month's notice required as from 12 February (which would have fitted in with my plans perfectly), but we don't have that option:
Yes you do.
it's either that we all renew or all leave (as one group of joint tenants).
see above.plus link below

I am in the process of buying a place but have no idea yet when it will be sorted out. I'm hoping around 8-10 weeks' time. I do not want my name on a new 6 month tenancy agreement as I don't want to be liable for potentially 5 months' rent after I leave.
Wise

My housemates want to stay. The letting agency won't let me stay if I'm not named on the agreement.
Would they know if you became your housemates' lodger?

I asked if I could be a permitted occupier, to get around that, but they said that they didn't think they could do that
Ah! Well now you raised it on their radar. Well done!!

....My housemates wouldn't want me to move out at the end of the fixed term as they'd be really stuffed if I left in just 4 weeks time (and I'd also be homeless!).

The agency won't move the date of the fixed term agreement as they need it to eventually end in August 2019 when the owners' contract with them expires.
What does the landlord say? Have you asked?

I can't give my notice in yet as we're still in the fixed term so any notice would be invalid.[STRIKE]as I don't know when I'm moving and also the sale might fall through (seems unlikely so far as it's a straightforward chain-free process but it's very early days and I need my solicitor's Report on the Title to ensure she hasn't found any lethal pitfalls in the lease).[/STRIKE]

Even if I did give in my notice now,which you legally cannot there is the situation that my housemates will still have to renew by 12th February and only have three names on the contract, or move to a SPT (monthly) with you still as a joint tenant

whilst I'm still sitting out my notice period for an extra month.
as explained you cannot give notice during a fixed term.
As we're all on one contract, I can't just sit and not renew and end up on a rolling tenancy whilst they renew and go onto[STRIKE] an AST[/STRIKE]a SPT.
Correct. Either
* you ALL leave
* you ALL move to a monthly SPT or
* a new fixed term is signed by..... any combination

:eek:

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

stardust09

Thanks. The agency have usually always written to us 2 months in advance, and usually served a section 21 notice at the same time (I've just discovered this isn't allowed anymore). That's where I got the idea from that they usually issued a 2 month reminder.

I am confused about the notice period. Our contract clearly states:" To give the Landlord at least two calendar months' notice in writing when the Tenant wishes to end the tenancy provided always that such notice shall not expire earlier than the end of the fixed Term." The letter issued by the agency on 17th January also says, in bold type, I quote: "we would like to know if you wish to renew the tenancy as you are required to give two months' notice should you wish to vacate."

Is this inaccurate then? We did sign a contract agreeing to this. They seem very insistent that these are the rules. I don't know how enforceable this is legally. They seem to be suggesting that we do have to give notice during the fixed term period and it is a legal requirement. I am confused!

There is no contact with the owners. They are anonymous people who live overseas. I know the date of the contract is fixed because the agency wouldn't issue a new one when a new tenant moved in a few months ago - they did some permitted occupier deal instead and I never even knew about it or signed anything. Even my new housemate knows very little about what it actually means, except she can live here with permission. No paperwork was sent to me by the agency.

My sense is that the agency won't allow us to go onto a rolling contract. They will push us hard to sign up to something else or threaten us with a s.21 notice. They are very good at saying their rules are absolute. I don't want to put my housemates through that stress. The agency offer a guaranteed rent scheme to landlords, hence why I think they want everyone on an AST.

I am hoping that they will just issue a new AST without my name on it and then add a new person later on. It would be the easiest way but they seem unsure about what to do, plus I seem to be named by them as the lead tenant (which may or may not complicate things, I don't know).

G_M

People (even letting agents!) put all sorts of things in contracts.....

stardust09 wrote: »

Thanks. The agency have usually always written to us 2 months in advance, and usually served a section 21 notice at the same time (I've just discovered this isn't allowed anymore). That's where I got the idea from that they usually issued a 2 month reminder.
The new law does not allow them to serve a S21 in the first 6 months of the tenancy. As yours is a 12 month tenancy (started 13 Feb 2016?) there is nothing stopping them serving a S21.

I am confused about the notice period. Our contract clearly states:" To give the Landlord at least two calendar months' notice in writing when the Tenant wishes to end the tenancy provided always that such notice shall not expire earlier than the end of the fixed Term." The letter issued by the agency on 17th January also says, in bold type, I quote: "we would like to know if you wish to renew the tenancy as you are required to give two months' notice should you wish to vacate."


Is this inaccurate then?
Yes. It is unenforcible. You have a contract, with an end date. Therefore you can simply walk away on that end date and the contract will be ended. No penalty for not giving notice.

Naturally (and understandably) the landlord/agent would prefer to know in advance what you will do, so by putting that clause in the contract they hope you will simply do as the clause says (even though you don't legally have to).
We did sign a contract agreeing to this.
irrelevant
They seem very insistent that these are the rules.
Of course. But not to the point of going to court if you fail to abide by their rules.

I don't know how enforceable this is legally.
Not at all.
They seem to be suggesting that we do have to give notice during the fixed term period and it is a legal requirement. I am confused!
I hope you are now less confused.

There is no contact with the owners.
They are anonymous people who live overseas.
You have a legal right to ask for their actual address (
Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S1 )

I know the date of the contract is fixed because the agency wouldn't issue a new one when a new tenant moved in a few months ago - they did some permitted occupier deal instead and I never even knew about it or signed anything.
They cannot do that without the consent of ALL the joint tenants. As joint tenants, you have a right to the entire property. The LL/agent cannot just move someone new in!

Even my new housemate knows very little about what it actually means, except she can live here with permission. No paperwork was sent to me by the agency.
The new occupant needs YOUR joint permission. Kick her out if you wish!
Who does she pay rent to? If you, she is your lodger. If the LL/agent, she is an illegal tenant.

My sense is that the agency won't allow us to go onto a rolling contract.
They cannot stop you. Read the link in my previous post.
They will push us hard to sign up to something else or threaten us with a s.21 notice.
Yes, that they can do.
They are very good at saying their rules are absolute. I don't want to put my housemates through that stress. The agency offer a guaranteed rent scheme to landlords, hence why I think they want everyone on an AST.
Ah! so who is named as 'The Landlord' on the tenancy agreement? The agency or the owner?

Either way, if there's a guaranteed rent to the LL, the last thing the agency will want is a period with NO tenants in place - that would mean no rent income for them, but rent paid out to the LL. So I doubt they would actually evict!

I am hoping that they will just issue a new AST without my name on it and then add a new person later on.
They can't.
It would be the easiest way but they seem unsure about what to do, plus I seem to be named by them as the lead tenant (which may or may not complicate things, I don't know).

Once a joint tenancy exists, it cannot be changed except by a Deed of Assignment, signed by the LL/agent, the new tenant, AND all the existing tenants.

They cannot 'add a name' later!

But if your housemates want to stay, why don't they ask for a new fixed term, in their names (without you)?
1) They then get security for the next 12 (or 6 if they prefer) months
2) the agency is happy - they have a new contract (and £60!)
3) you then stay on as a lodger (don't ask for permission as the agency will refuse) and pay rent to your housemates.
4) When/if you leave, your housemates find a new lodger
5) Your housemates will still be respnsible between themselves for the full property rent (note - there is no 'my share/your share' of the rent)

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Miss_Samantha

You are on a joint-tenancy so whether you leave or not at the end of the fixed term AST does not make much difference if the other joint-tenants stay: You'll remain a tenant and will have to serve notice.

tim123456789

stardust09 wrote: »

I am confused about the notice period. Our contract clearly states:" To give the Landlord at least two calendar months' notice in writing when the Tenant wishes to end the tenancy provided always that such notice shall not expire earlier than the end of the fixed Term." The letter issued by the agency on 17th January also says, in bold type, I quote: "we would like to know if you wish to renew the tenancy as you are required to give two months' notice should you wish to vacate."

Is this inaccurate then? We did sign a contract agreeing to this. They seem very insistent that these are the rules. I don't know how enforceable this is legally. They seem to be suggesting that we do have to give notice during the fixed term period and it is a legal requirement. I am confused!

It's worthless gobbledygook


There is no requirement for T to give notice to leave at the expiry of the tenancy and nothing can be put in the contract to change that.


Of course you do actually have to leave on/before the due date - all of you.


If one of you stays on then the contract rolls over into a periodic tenancy.

ThePants999

G_M should be paid for his advice on these sorts of threads...

theartfullodger

You can leave any time you like: This evening @ 19:08 if you wish.

Issue is, do you want to keep paying rent as well? To avoid this negotiate with fellow occupants and landlord/agent or give valid, formal, written notice.

G_M

Don't often disagree with you artful......

theartfullodger wrote: »

You can leave any time you like: This evening @ 19:08 if you wish. true.

Issue is, do you want to keep paying rent as well? Correct.
To avoid this negotiate with fellow occupants and landlord/agent or give valid, formal, written notice.

Valid formal notice cannot be given during a fixed term tenancy (though an informal heads up of intentions in advance of the end of a FT is usually sensible).

Valid formal notice can only be served after the fixed term has expired and a subsequent periodic tenancy has commenced (ie 13th Feb).

G_M

ThePants999 wrote: »

G_M should be paid for his advice on these sorts of threads...

Anyone who feels they have benefitted can make a contribution to https://www.myeloma.org.uk/

(this is not one of my oft-misunderstood tongue-in-cheek posts!)