Claim suspended for notsupplying evidence requested in letter I've never received

Sambella

Delree wrote: »

In my job (tenant support in a Housing Association) I have identified a massive problem with the Royal Mail in my postal area. Now I don't know if it's individual postmen or women or a systemic problem at the sorting office, but somehow every official letter that contains anything other than good news never seems to make it. I estimate that between 20 and 30% of all letters, especially official looking ones, just totally vanish. It's a mystery and I don't know what to do about it.

That's interesting but unless the open the mail how would they know if it's a good or bad letter?

Are your letters automated or do you actually print and envelope them yourselves?

Lioness_Twinkletoes

Sambella wrote: »

That's interesting but unless the open the mail how would they know if it's a good or bad letter?

I think you are missing the point.

rockingbilly

I have no idea if councils have to follow similar regulations as the DWP have to when it comes to suspending benefits. But having said that I have yet to see the DWP implement those regulations when suspending any benefit. Their excuse is 'it isn't a suspension as such more an inhibition that the computer carries out automatically' - well that was the excuse they came up with me!
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/481947/suspension-termination-guide.pdf

dekaspace

FBaby wrote: »

Most post arrives to the address provided. Most occasions when it isn't being delivered to the intended person, it's because the address used is wrong. In most cases, it is because the receiver hasn't informed of a change of address through the proper channels.

Sometimes, it is indeed the administrative function that has been deficient. When that's the case, instead of huffing of puffing, the best way to resolve the issue is to communicate with them, and act on their request asap for resolve the matter.

Of course it is frustrating for those few cases of maladministration or the even rarer cases of post office mishandling. However, it remains that in the vast majority, 'letters not received' fall under the category of 'it's been received but ignored and then forgotten' or 'it's been received at the last address that was provided'.

Any proof of that or is it just opinion? Whilst I don't doubt they can be ignored even if could be just a mistake like person forgets they get a letter, I also think random letters can go missing, it would just happen to be that random letter could be a important one.

And around bank holidays and even more things likee Easter and Christmas I notice I can get letters dated before the event a month later sometimes even more and some not at all, this isn't just official stuff, even remember a few years back getting a postcard sent 3 months before.

Thats assuming places like DWP do their job right, they sent me a giro a few years ago despite a note on file saying don't sent things out because it was a unsafe post box, then they made me wait months for a replacement.

Oh and when they screwed up a branch move a few years before that which got my claim closed, I phoned pretty much daily and a few months passed and I won the appeal, only to a day later get sanctioned for not signing on so losing most of the appeal money, somehow even though I never signed a jobseekers agreement or was given sign on dates and times I failed to attend, and I appealed that and lost saying "not a good enough reason" so them NOT giving me a sign on date or time and me phoning daily was not a good enough reason?!. They claimed they sent out documents but considering it was only a day earlier I won previous appeal how can I get a document in one day, how could I of missed 3 sign ones when the claim was closed until a day before.

That is bad administration.

gilbutre

dekaspace wrote: »

As someone who had to deal with DWP, a few times I sent letters to them recorded delivery and they never signed for them, this was after they lost multiple documents I handed in, in the end only a complaint to the MP made them like a miracle find the documents in under 20 minutes, the way I was spoke to on phone was either as if I was lying, or an uncaring "well just do the form and get id again and it takes 14 days from when we recieve it to look at it" (like a 30 page form, and hard to get ID)

Even had them lose a friends P45 and when we got a replacement I was a witness and asked for a receipt to get shouted at by the advisor saying "don't you trust me" and turning it around to basically imply we were troublemakers and typical benefit claimants.

Theres the general attitude of both the DWP and council if they can't find it on system you never handed it in, the worst was 11 I think housing benefit applications I made around 2001 as they kept losing them, and the person at the desk was well known to look down on benefit claimaints (yet go in to inform you were starting work and he was suddenly nice to you) I can remember the time he was snooty with my dad and trying to put him down not realising my dad has 2 degrees and when my dad stood up to him and put him in a corner the guy didn't know what to say until he basically whimpered he would get my dad chucked out (all my dad did was be calm and assertive)

My dad also helped me the time with the 11 applications, again calm but assertive and stated rights and basically told him he would take things further to get a grin and a smug response of "yeah right, lets see you do that then"

Next day after my dad did take it further they found all 11 applications and I was even paid the full rent even though the local rate at time was £15 under the rent.

The general common thread for both DWP and councils tends to be once they recieve something they don't bother to file it until they want to, the absolute worse thing I had which was DWP was when they lose multiple doctors notes and so closed my claim saying I never handed them in meaning I had no money for about 6 months (only survived by overdraft) A year later they did the same thing again so another 6 months I had no money.

So they lose/misfile things you send or hand them but assume everything they send you get and choose not to respond to.

This sounds all quite awful. And extremely irritating.

TESCOBABE56

gilbutre wrote: »

Just received a letter announcing my Housing Benefit was suspended because I failed to provide evidence requested in a letter that I have actually never received.

The exact same thing ALREADY happened to me several years ago: claim suspended for failing to give evidence requested in a mail that I've never received.

I find it absolutely brillant to be financially punished by the council for the failures of Royal Mail. What an excellent system isn't it?

I'll call tomorrow but I guess I'm just f***ed again.

I suggest if you have been claiming HB for years, you're not the one being f***ed. So sorry you have to be inconvenienced.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

TESCOBABE56 wrote: »

I suggest if you have been claiming HB for years, you're not the one being f***ed. So sorry you have to be inconvenienced.

There are procedures online. Normally after a letter requesting information is sent out. The claim would only be suspended at this stage if it was obvious there was a large discrepancy in financial or household circumstances that would cause an overpayment (i.e. a wage slip that indicates wages are substantially higher than those held previously etc). If not the claim remains in payment. A reminder is sent out after 14 days. If after 28 days there is no reply then the claim is suspended giving the claimant time to respond. If after 28 days there is no response the claim is cancelled.

About 10% of Housing Benefit claimants fail to respond to reviews - mostly because their financial circumstances have substantially changes - at my Local Authority all claimants who fail to return reviews are investigated. Those that we class as vulnerable (elderly, disabled, English not first language etc) we do try and contact by telephone, email or home visit before suspending the claim.

Mersey_2

missapril75 wrote: »

What kind of evidence would you expect? A signed statement that a member of staff witnessed that the letter they'd arranged was handed to the post office and they tracked it until it was mailed?

Or some CCTV footage of them putting it in the mailbox for collection? Some kind of homing device?

Or just the record of it having been issued which would be initialled and dated if done locally or would show up on the computer system as having been issued

Any evidence in fact. As required by the District Judge at First Tier Tribunal or a red Judge at the Upper Tribunal.


In case you are unaware, in Appeals such as this, the DWP are indeed asked - as Respondents - to sign a Statement and provide evidence of their case. In the specific case, the DWP failed to and then days before the Hearing supplied evidence which included evidence of a Decision being notified in accordance with DM01431. Social Security Act 1998, s39 2A.


However, the Judge asked them how their Ms XX could state in Doc 14 whether the Claimant was notified some 9 months previously. The Hearing was adjourned.


Amusingly, at the next Hearing the DWP produced a photocopy of a letter dated 22.10.10 (the same day as the appointment being notified of) but it had been crossed out and handwritten in was a date 3 days earlier.


Clearly the Judge was not satisfied with that. Indeed he was not happy at all - so much so that he might a finding of fact that the letter had not been sent out at all and the attempt to retrospectively backdate the letter was reported to DWP HQ.


The legal point for those interested is that no Decision is deemed to be fully effective unless and until the Claimant is 'notified' of the same. DMG01015, R(CS)4/07


The other finding of interest in that case - which was made by the Upper Tribunal (as there were two appeals heard together by the FTT) - reaffirmed DMG01342: that if there is insufficient evidence to establish the facts, the DWP should ask for more evidence (R v Sec of State ex parte CPAG [1990] 2QB 540) before making a Decision to sanction a Claimant.

missapril75

dekaspace wrote: »

...."well just do the form and get id again and it takes 14 days from when we recieve it to look at it"

That's what I said. It takes time to get through the system. Mail is opened at central offices other than the DWP on behalf of them. Not being able to lay hands on something because it's not filtered through the system yet is different to not having received it.

... they found all 11 applications

There you go...not lost just not so easy to locate during a phone call or brief visit to the office, just as I said.

missapril75

Sambella wrote: »

That's interesting but unless the open the mail how would they know if it's a good or bad letter?

I think the implication is that once opened it's then possible to tell if it's good or bad and if one doesn't like the contents that is when "nothing has been received."