Help with TWO PCNs in Own Space in Private Residential Car Park

DevereauxMcGill

Thank you The Deep.

I will wait until day 26 and appeal as per the guidelines.

Should I also quote, as keeper of the vehicle, that I am the tenant, and the line from the AST above, in the same email?

(I will read through all of the links provided by yourself and others in this thread, when I have time to digest them).

Once I've had a reply from NSGL I will let you know the outcome.

Thanks.

The_Slithy_Tove

DevereauxMcGill wrote: »

The AST says nothing at all about parking, unfortunately.

Only section 4.2 - That the Tenant paying the Rent and performing the agreements on the part of the Tenant may quietly possess and enjoy the Property during the Term without any unlawful interruption from the Landlord or his agent.

...but this is really only about the flat itself, so I doubt there will be any comeback.

Au contraire! If it's an allocated parking space, then it's effectively part of the flat, and as much your (rented) property as your kitchen. Your right to quiet enjoyment extends to the parking space, for which your AST does not impose ANY conditions on its use. This gives you very much the upper hand.

Fruitcake

DevereauxMcGill wrote: »

>> For God's sake man, tell us what your AST says about parking. You have been asked several times.

We had visitors. I also have twin babies that need my attention.

The AST says nothing at all about parking, [STRIKE]unfortunately[/STRIKE] fortunately.

Only section 4.2 - That the Tenant paying the Rent and performing the agreements on the part of the Tenant may quietly possess and enjoy the Property during the Term without any unlawful interruption from the Landlord or his agent.

...but this is really only about the flat itself, so I doubt there will be any comeback.

There, corrected it for you.

There is nothing in your AST that says you have to have a permit and have to comply with a third party's made up silly rules, as I suspected.

As I already mentioned, you can add to the BPA template bit that your AST trumps their silly made up rules, and that any attempt to obtain further information about the VRN will be a breach of the DPA, and they have already committed trespass and carried out an unlawful business on your property.

You may want to quote some of the wording from the post I quoted earlier.

Half_way

If you have a permit, have you paid for it, or signed anything in order to receive the permit?

You need to get in touch with the management company and tell them that they must cancel all charges levied by their agents, you have only been displaying a permit at your own discretion, and if they want the permit back then they must arrange a collection time, or supply you with a stamped addressed envelope

DevereauxMcGill

Hi Half_way,

Yes, my wife signed for the permit when it was renewed in November.

Thanks!

DevereauxMcGill

Hi,

This is what I'm planning to send for each PCN. It's a combination of the template appeal and the email sent in the thread as suggested by Fruitcake. Any thoughts? Too much?

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

Your PCN draws to my attention that you are using my designated car parking area for your own business purposes. My lease allows unfettered occupational rights to the parking areas, which means you are operating a predatory business on land which you have no legitimate interest in, and have not sought approval for the use of from the actual landholder, ie myself. Therefore you have trespassed on my leased land.

Your involvement on this land will have supposedly been to prevent parking by uninvited persons, for the benefit of the actual leaseholders and their invited guests. In any case, my lease makes no restrictions to the use of the parking facilities.

My lease remains the same as it was when it was originally signed which means you are acting unlawfully and without landholder consent. If you feel that you have been misled by the Managing Agents insofar as they have contracted with you to operate here, then that is something you must take up with them directly. It is of little interest to me as I have unequivocal unfettered right of peaceful enjoyment on my land.

May I draw your attention to the following cases. That a right to “use” and access a roadway can reasonably include a right to park was accepted by the court in McClymont v. Primecourt Property Management Limited* [2000] All ER (D) 1871. On the facts, a grant of a right to use a private road included the right to park vehicles.

And case of Jopson v Homeguard , case 2906J in Oxford County Court where the appeal heard by his honour Judge Harris QC. This was an appeal against a previous hearing which was awarded in favour of Homeguard, in similar circumstances as those addressed in my dispute with you.The Judge allowed the appeal in favour of Mrs Jopson.

Your involvement in your supposed parking management arrangements place on you an obligation to ensure that proper consideration is given to all the facts. Lax contractual assessment is not an excuse for a derogation of your duty.

You will know that you cannot add a requirement for residents to now display permits (and foist onerous parking charges on my ground) because access rights and easements allowing vehicle and parking were already granted under the lease.

As you have seen fit to attempt to charge me the sum of £80 as a legitimate amount for the use of my own leased property, I hereby claim the exact same amount from you for your trespass and business use on my allocated parking space.

To prevent this matter being taken to court I require payment within 14 working days from 2 days of the date of this letter. Failure of this will result in a court claim being instigated and consequential separate costs being added for the added expense.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

In addition, I would also like to draw your attention to Section 10 Notice under DPA, that you should not obtain further data about this VRN because I have the primacy of contract as leaseholder. Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the BPA Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, for example) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal in your contract, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not give you consent to process data from the DVLA relating to this vehicle, whether you have already obtained it or not.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours sincerely,

Thanks.

The_Deep

As they may well have obtained your details from the DVLA without just cause you may be able too sue them for offences under the DPA and breaching their Kadoe Contract.

Here is a complaint I made to the DVLA recently

SAR Enquiries
DVRE
DVLA
Swansea
SA99 1ZZ

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Dear Sirs[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I wish to draw to your notice that APCOA appear to have obtained my personal details from you without due cause, thus breaching their KADOE contract and infringing my personal DPA rights [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]They have sent me a notice to keeper demanding £100 for an alleged infringement of their Terms and Conditions of parking on railway land covered by bye-laws. This is contrary to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Please investigate this matter and if they have used my personal data improperly, or breached their Kadoe contract please apply the applicable sanctions.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yours faithfully[/FONT]


Read this


http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act/

safarmuk

This happening more and more I am afraid and you are now one of the people who needs to fight - with the help of everyone on this forum - to stop more people being treated like you. I am currently battling an equally ridiculous scheme on my estate on behalf of my tenants and residents.

Someone will check your letter shortly and check the cases referenced as I am still getting up to speed on this myself so don't want to misadvise.

However I noted from your original post:

After Christmas & new year, following a period of about two weeks of non-use of my car, I discovered two PCNs attached to the driver's side window. I live in a gated complex, and my space is in an undercroft car park, accessible only via a keyfob activated gate. I am a tenant, rather than an owner, but have been living here for nearly seven years. The car parks are now "managed" by NSGL Parking.

1) Why an earth is there a PPC a) operating in a gated complex and even worse b) operating in a undercroft car park that has key fob access ...
-> In our estate we got the operating in the undercroft car park stopped pretty quickly

I would suggest you contact your landlord, if you have been there 7 years he won't want to lose you. Tell him that it is not acceptable that you are hassled in this way. Ask him who the Management Agent (who he pays maintenance to) is and who the Freeholder (who he pays Ground Rent to) is.
Ask him to check his original Lease and to complain about this scheme alongside you. Tell him that the entity that instructed the PPC (most likely the MA) is very likely breaching his Lease and in turn breaching your AST. In essence by signing an AST with you he has passed his Lease rights onto you and specifically your allocated space. Nowhere did you accept the risk of having to pay an additional £40/pop to a third party who have just shown up in the event a bit of paper is not on your dashboard or windscreen.

All these Residential Parking problems need to be tackled two fold - 1) the appeals route and DPA breach against the PPC and then 2) getting the MA (or whomever instructed the PPC) to implement something fit for purpose assuming that there is an actual parking problem to solve AND taking responsibility for sorting out whatever they implement - after all it is the Leaseholders that pay the MA

Redx

this was a similar "gated community" case , recently won against VCS

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5588781

it may help

Half_way

While any possible DPA breach may have been carried out by the PPC, the management company are also jointly and severally liable for the actions if its agents (the PPC)
The sooner the management companies start getting stung as a result of the actions of their agents the sooner PPC land will become toxic to landowners