Rejecting used car < 30 days

schooleydoo

Morning.

I've lost all faith in the car I purchased for my wife at the beginning of the month from a non-franchised local dealer (with excellent reviews) and am hoping for some advice and success stories from people who have rejected a used car car outright.

I know this currently is an option to me, but realistically in the real world, doing so comes with some risks. If the dealer disputes my reason to reject and refuses to accept the car back and provide a refund (£6k), I cannot drive the car whilst fighting this decision through legal routes. This could take months and would leave my wife car-less. I'm therefore hoping once I provide a few possible reasons for rejecting, someone can tell me if any of them are indisputable.

The 30th day since purchase is this Friday. My main concern is once this day passes, it is much easier for the dealer to refuse to do any more work on the car and revert me to the warranty supplied (mechanical only, limited to £500), which would not cover this water issue.

Below is a long summary of the history so far.

Dear x,
I am writing to formally express my concern with the used car I purchased from your company, on 30th November 2016. This is due to the continuous issues with water in the cabin of the car. The car has been returned to you three times for this fault and it has still not been rectified. The car is now suffering from mould and smells damp at all times. It is not a nice place to be in for anyone. Now it is getting colder, I have also recently noticed condensation on the inside of the windows that is turning to ice.

As you know, this car was purchased for my wife as her Mini was impractical with a six month old baby. However, having to clear ice from the inside of the car every day with a six month old baby is far more impractical and will render the car unusable for her. The spreading mould is a health concern and as a precaution since its discovery, we no longer use the car. This letter aims to detail the work performed by you so far and formally request you resolve the underlying issue via a VW dealership before returning the car to us without any symptoms of the fault such as damp carpets or insulation, or the presence of mould.

30/12/16.
Agreed purchase. You agreed to replace rear discs and pads, bonnet release spring, rotate tyres, and provide a full MOT as well as perform an 82 point check. All these requests were met and collection was organised the following day.

01/12/16.
After collection in the morning, we returned the car four hours later to report an electrical fault with the sun roof and pools of water in the nearside foot wells. You explained this was due to the drain hoses of the sunroof having been cleared of debris two weeks ago and not being cleaned up afterwards. You advised me to get the carpets cleaned with a wet and dry vacuum and return the car the next day for the sun roof to be repaired.

02/12/16 – returned car.
I took the car to a local valeter who used a wet and dry vacuum for 15 minutes to remove the water, before returning to you for the sun roof repair.
I also requested for you to check the return of the gear stick as it was not returning to the centre when released out of gear.
Finally I had noticed an engine warning light appear briefly, twice, that you would check.

03/12/16.
You called and advised that the sunroof had been repaired and a spring had been replaced in the gear stick. You wanted to keep the car however, to ensure the sun roof was no longer leaking by running a hose over it and try and replicate the engine warning light as no fault codes were stored.

05/12/16 – collected car.
My wife collected the car and was told no leaks could be found on the roof and to leave the heater running to dry out the carpet. The engine warning light fault could not be replicated.

I returned home from work and found the carpet in the front and rear foot well was once again soaking wet, despite being valeted and the heater on when being driven. I called to report this and you requested its return once more. We agreed on Saturday as my wife required the car for the remainder of that week as I was overseas.

10/12/16 – returned car. Collected and again returned.
I returned car for you to diagnose the cause of the water ingress once more. I also asked you to check steering wheel wobble under acceleration above 70MPH.

I collected the car that afternoon and was told a missing bung in the floor had been located and replaced, which should allow the carpet to dry. I was told to leave heaters running to accelerate this. I was also told a loose engine mount had been tightened which had reduced steering wheel wobble to an acceptable level.
I left the heaters on as instructed but after 2 hours, still found the carpet and insulation sodden. When trim was removed, I found the insulation under the carpet was also sodden and acting as a sponge. I again called to report this and returned the car to you that day.

16/12/16 - collected car.
Collected car and found carpets almost dry. I was told that the carpets had been removed and dried, all water removed from the insulation below the carpet and driven with the carpet out to ensure no water entered the cabin from above or below.

23/12/16.
Car intentionally left unused since collection the previous week. I found condensation on inside of windows and the carpet still felt damp in places. I noticed mould on the roofline, seatbelts and seats. I installed two 1KG silica bags in an attempt to reduce the spread of mould.

27/12/16.
Despite presence of silica bags, I found a small patch of water in rear passenger foot well. Removed trim and found insulation below carpet once more sodden.

As mentioned previously, this is the fourth time I have contacted you to report the same fault. The car has travelled less than 200 miles in our possession and I have been within my rights to reject the car at any point over the last month due to this and other faults discovered. Although I considered this, so far your approach and willingness to address the reported issues has been fantastic.

That being said, I feel I have been more than fair in delivering the car back to you and giving you time to diagnose and repair the problems however you see fit, but I now must insist the car is inspected elsewhere. Although I am sure your chosen garage is competent in repairing a wide variety of cars, they have not been able to resolve this issue. I suggest specialist knowledge of this particular model is required and request the car to be delivered to and repaired by a VW dealership before being returned damp, smelly and mould free.

Please advise your intentions so we can finally put this issue to bed.

Since sending this via email last night, the dealer has called and offered to look at it again. I refused and we have agreed for VW to diagnose the fault, then the dealer act on that diagnosis to repair though their (cheaper) local garage. Then get the carpets dried, and the car valeted.

However, the time it will take for this to happen will push me past the 30 day limit I have to reject due to one of the following from the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

• The goods must be of satisfactory quality (taking into account that it is used)
• The goods must be fit for purpose (i.e the car must be roadworthy and driveable unless described otherwise) including any purpose that you specify to the dealer
• The goods must match the description given at the time of purchase

As the car is right now, can I reject it using any of those three stipulations?

I drove the car last night to check the steering wheel wobble over 70MPH under acceleration and it is still there, but now only begins at 85MPH. When leaving the drive there was a knocking every time the rear wheel rotated for around 2 miles, it then disappeared. I assumed this was due to the car standing for over a week but it adds to the lost faith in the car overall.

Lastly, the dealer told me at the time the cam belt had been done by them recently. When checking the history in his office I found that it had actually been done in May 2012 at 78k. They backtracked and said they were mistaken and it was a throttle actuator that was replaced. I have proof of the parts ordered by them for the actuator. It has now done 100k but VW recommend the cam belt is replaced every 4 years. The cam belt is therefore overdue replacement.

If I notify them, I imagine the will replace it for me. However, can I use the cam belt being overdue alone to reject the car today?

dannyrst

I'm no expert, but I would suggest you have grounds for a refund given the car has a fault (leak). You've also shown a willingness to allow them to fix the fault, but they haven't been successful in doing so.

I'd get a template letter from the web around requesting a refund.

How many miles have you put on the car since purchase?

schooleydoo

dannyrst wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I would suggest you have grounds for a refund given the car has a fault (leak). You've also shown a willingness to allow them to fix the fault, but they haven't been successful in doing so.

I'd get a template letter from the web around requesting a refund.

How many miles have you put on the car since purchase?

It's done 400 miles since we bought it, although 200 of them were done by them!

dannyrst

schooleydoo wrote: »

It's done 400 miles since we bought it, although 200 of them were done by them!

Then I'd request a full refund. Don't use the car again unless it is by agreement with the dealer that you are driving it back to return it for the refund.

You'll have to make do with public transport for now if possible.

Tilt

Ok so it's obviously A VW.

Forget the 'time limit' of 30 days as the defect is still current and unresolved. In fact under current consumer regs, you have 6 moths from the date of purchase until the seller dosn't have to prove that the defect wasn't present at the time of purchase.

I think you have 2 options;

You write a formal letter of rejection (but as you say, you cannot use the car once sent) and reject the car as being not fit for purpose. The cam belt issue could add weight to your reasons but I think the water ingress issue is sufficient.

OR you could take the car to a VW dealer to have them inspect it and provide a detailed report/estimate of what is involved and whether the problem can actually be rectified. Obviously this option ought to be discussed with the seller first as they will be a cost involved. If they are as 'helpful' as you suggest, they should agree to this. However, you should make clear that depending on what the report says will be dependent on whether you wish to have the car further repaired or that you want a refund.

Le_Kirk

If you do decide to go into writing, do not use the summary in post #1, it contains an error. You bought the car on 30/12/16 then took it back for correction on 01/12/16, presumably you meant 30/11/16.

wgl2014

Is there still a leak or has this been fixed and the dampness that is left is still from the original fault?

From experience there can be a lot of hiding spots for water once a decent amount gets in! I had this issue in a 2000 Passat where the cabin filter seal had perished so water came in through the vents by your feet. Ended up taking all carpets out and leaving them up to dry out along with about a month's worth of newspaper being used to mop any leftover damp up.

schooleydoo

wgl2014 wrote: »

Is there still a leak or has this been fixed and the dampness that is left is still from the original fault?

From experience there can be a lot of hiding spots for water once a decent amount gets in! I had this issue in a 2000 Passat where the cabin filter seal had perished so water came in through the vents by your feet. Ended up taking all carpets out and leaving them up to dry out along with about a month's worth of newspaper being used to mop any leftover damp up.

It's hard to say, as it's the insulation as well as the carpet that is wet. The insulation acts as a sponge and retains the water. But, it has been returned to them, twice to look at the leak and I assume they would remove the water, then once more (for almost a week) when they apparently removed the carpet and had a space heater on it every day until insulation and carpet was dry. I didn't remove the carpet once collected to check this but the carpet was almost dry at that time. Since then it has been getting steadily more damp and having removed the carpet yesterday, the insulation is now wet again. Was it always wet and they didn't do as they said, or is the leak still present?

missile

Once the carpets and underfelt are wet it can be difficult to dry without removing them and most likely they will start to smell and need replacing.

Given the number of faults you have experienced I would be trying to return the car.

david_a

Don't forget any time the car is with the dealer for repair the clock stops on the 30 days.

Rain_Shadow

schooleydoo wrote: »

I drove the car last night to check the steering wheel wobble over 70MPH under acceleration and it is still there, but now only begins at 85MPH.

Does it stop when you reach 110?:rotfl: