Share of freehold: maintenance questions

NeilCr

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Is this a right to manage freehold which is being managed by one or more of the other leaseholders?

You put that better than I did!

:T

AlexMac

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Is this a right to manage freehold which is being managed by one or more of the other leaseholders?

The OP described the arrangement (which I've experienced several times as a leaseholder) in their opening para; the 4 leaseholders are directors of the freehold company and, I assume, self-manage collectively, with or without help from professionals (probably without).

And back to the Q; I would hesitate before pressing for an expensive rewriting ofthe lease and try a negotiated settlement. I'm maybe lucky in that in most of my experiences, the lease has been fairly clear about what is maintained at communal expense.

And even if not, it has always been accepted that structural stuff is communal- so roof repairs should not just be a problem for the top flat, but are an obvious shared cost. Similarly in one of my past flats, the company members , together, agreed to pay for rising damp in my semi basement flat, for gutter repairs to a side roof which only affected me, and for external decor from a pooled sinking fund with contributions based on differential % shares as set out in the lease (not all flats were the same size).

Even where it wasn't set out in the lease, we agreed reasonable divvi-up on the "swings and roundabouts" principle; so that, for example we all shared costs of a DIY loft insulation for the top flat in one 6-flat conversion, and all pitched in to help do the work. Whereas we also agreed that the two lower level flats shouldn't contribute to the re-carpeting and redecoration of the halls and staircase which only the top four flats used.

But we worked hard at keeping the relationship between Directors sweet; despite occasional spats over things like shared or separate TV antennae or dishes! And by sharing tasks like filing companies house returns, sorting insurances and commissioning repairs ourselves, we saved on expensive and uncaring managing agents or accountants.

So back to the OP- if I was you, I'd cheerfully swallow the cost of re-roofing even if you are on the ground floor, as that does indirectly benefit you in that you don't want to be a freeholder of a damp shell. But I'd politely but constructively negotiate out of the bits which are optional like CCTV. G_M must be on his hols or he'd be suggesting tea and cake!

And if you can't win that point, maybe swallow the couple of hundred quid cost on the grounds that a good relationship is more important than that and what goes around will come around in your favour in future?

G_M

I have been.

Yes tea and cake is definately the best solution. Invite the others round (xmas/new Year is an ideal excuse for a building get-together, but maybe substitute mulled wine for the tea?).

Then an amicable and reasonable exchange of views and an informal setlement/way forward (followed by a friendly email to confirm next day!)

Re-writing the lease is an option but will

* involve a solicitor(s)
* inevitably lead to disputes over specific new clauses - with each solicitor's letter costing £100
* only succeed if all the parties agree - it would only take one person to refuse to accept one clause for the whole attempt to fail (with the solicitor still sending in his invoice)

The other option is to simply unilaterally decide to pay for what you agree (eg a roof repair when needed) and ignore payments for things you don't (eg the CCTV bill).

This will destroy the relationship beween you all, and could escalate, ultimately, to even more costly legal action....

galathea

Thank you everyone. I understand that the good relationship costs more, but somehow I feel that I am the only one thinking so. For some reason, so far I am the only one who is always compromising. I paid for the rising damp fix on my own, but contributed to all the gutters, roofs, bricks repointing etc in equal parts, even though our building has one flat with 5 bedrooms currently rented to various students (rave parties etc) who probably account for bigger coverage and wear to the property than we are with our 2 bed. We also had problems with some youth banging at our door last year and asked for the common CCTV installed, but were refused. Only when this year a communal door was broken in, they all of sudden started CCTV conversations but want to exclude us from CCTV coverage. We had council works conducted next to our property which resulted in several cracks in the walls of our flat, I thought we should seek for common compensations, repairs and investigations, because clearly it might have affected the entire building. But again the response was, the cracks are in your flat, so deal with it on your own. It just really upsets me that every time some payment issue pops up, we never start conflicts, but immediately other owners are bringing up exclusions to the disadvantage of our flat.

moneyistooshorttomention

Sounds like you need to give them a letter listing off clearly what is communal expense. With an attachment listing what you have paid for towards that list that didn't directly affect you. Add another attachment of what you need paid for that doesn't directly affect them.

Followed by commenting that - as you have paid to benefit them then they must pay to benefit you in return. Otherwise - you will only contribute to the strictest possible definition of "communal" (and you attach a list saying what that will be - from which you exclude everything that only they derive benefit from).

Ask them to decide on which of those two lists (the full realistic one) or the "as limited as possible - restricted only to those items you all benefit from and that roof" they wish all of you to adhere to.

You may find you have to "cut your losses" and accept them not paying towards the communal expenses called "dealing with damp in your flat" and "cctv for your flat" - but make very sure the only communal expenses you pay towards in future are ones that you all get the benefit of (and the roof). They can't keep expecting this unfairness to continue. You will be giving them the choice of which of two lists they wish to go with. You've done your bit then...

bouicca21

Just to clarify, you have a copy of the management agreement, but what do the actual leases say?

Personally I'd assume cracks and damp were structural and therefore a communal responsibility (and surely the cracks at least can be pursued under the buildings policy? You do have a communal buildings policy don't you?)

I agree that the cctv is an improvement rather than maintenance and that you are probably not liable? How much would it add to the bill to include your flat?

Hoploz

If council work has caused cracks in your property, complain to the council! You've said you are all 4 equal freeholders so nobody else needs to give you the ok to report something that affects the building. The difficulty will be proving the work caused the cracks so be prepared to put some effort in if you think you're likely to be able to prove the cracks were not there before the work

Norman_Castle

galathea wrote: »

It just really upsets me that every time some payment issue pops up, we never start conflicts, but immediately other owners are bringing up exclusions to the disadvantage of our flat.

Play them at their own game. Exclude yourself from payments which don't advantage you. Everyone should fund repairs to the structure of the building from the foundations to the roof but if others exclude you from certain "communal" items such as cctv and your entrance doorway because it doesn't benefit them why should you fund "communal" doors and hallways which are presumably no use to you.
You need to speak up for yourself.

galathea

We are totally inexperienced in such issues, so didn't think of claiming on the building insurance in the first place (though we have it). Anyway, I doubt that other flats will allow to claim on it because as one of the owners implied it might affect the ability to sell or insure if the damage is "officially" found to be structural. Anyway, just by luck I got the pictures of the walls just before the works started. But council doesn't give a damn and forward to builders. Builders hired a surveyor who confirmed my reasoning and since then they disappeared and not answering the surveyor chasers ( or that's what he replies to my chasers). I approached several solicitors but they are very reluctant to take "building works disputes", difficult to prove and costly according to them. So we are in a limbo state for now. I had a very difficult year with my son going through the surgery etc, so we didn't have time and energy on our hands to go through and push on this and now, I am afraid, the time was lost. Anyway, thank you for your support and allowing me to vent my frustration. I will try to be more pushy this time, lets see were things will end up.

G_M

bouicca21 wrote: »

Just to clarify, you have a copy of the management agreement, but what do the actual leases say?

Indeed.

Dig out your lease and quote (word for word and in full) the relevant clauses.

We can then better advise.