M4 speed camera incident

Mercdriver

Andrew_Ryan_89 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know if anyone here has got a speed ticket whilst driving on the motorway and for what speed. I average 85mph and have never got a ticket, though I slow down when the variable speed limit is in place. On the M25, I comfortably drive at 95mph at times and never have got a ticket.

With that said, I see people zoom right past me going in excess of 100mph with no regards for the speed cameras. I don't know whether they get tickets or not but would be interested in hearing if people here have got tickets and for what speed.

Don't do this on the M4 and M5 near Bristol. Go to pepipoo. You will see several cases where drivers have got tickets driving through at around 85. In fact more and more VSL area are having the cameras enforce the NSL (+the usual allowance of 10%+1, enforcement at 10%+2) so the pragmatic thing to do would be to assume that all VSL cameras enforce NSL when not lit.

DavidP24

Mercdriver wrote: »

Where does it say they are inaccurate? The lines on the road are merely a secondary form of measurement to back up the evidence.

There is case law.

They are accurate IF they are maintained in accordance with manufacturers advice.

Of course they are not maintained any more than litter is picked up on every roadside every day, so the lines were brought in as you say to back up the evidence in the event of a challenge,

I myself challenged a case some years ago, I was running in a new engine, I had the car on cruise at 60 so I knew I was not speeding and it was 2am so road was empty.

The Police caved, the evidence of the lines was not produced and case was thrown out.

TadleyBaggie

DavidP24 wrote: »

There is case law.

They are accurate IF they are maintained in accordance with manufacturers advice.

Of course they are not maintained any more than litter is picked up on every roadside every day, so the lines were brought in as you say to back up the evidence in the event of a challenge,

I myself challenged a case some years ago, I was running in a new engine, I had the car on cruise at 60 so I knew I was not speeding and it was 2am so road was empty.

The Police caved, the evidence of the lines was not produced and case was thrown out.

There is no case law, the devices are approved and are deemed accurate unless proved otherwise. Your case did not create any case law, only cases that have progressed to the high court can create case law.

Mercdriver

DavidP24 wrote: »

There is case law.

They are accurate IF they are maintained in accordance with manufacturers advice.

Of course they are not maintained any more than litter is picked up on every roadside every day, so the lines were brought in as you say to back up the evidence in the event of a challenge,

I myself challenged a case some years ago, I was running in a new engine, I had the car on cruise at 60 so I knew I was not speeding and it was 2am so road was empty.

The Police caved, the evidence of the lines was not produced and case was thrown out.

As TadleyBaggie states, only cases that go to the High Court become case law. Suggesting otherwise would encourage people to challenge, risking higher costs making a £100 fine be dwarfed by £1000+ in court fees.

ETA: In your case, you had reason to challenge as you were doing 60 on cruise and the measurement allows true speed to be measured manually. You are suggesting that they are inherently faulty and thereby encouraging people to routinely challenge them, which since they are type approved could be an expensive project for them, and I doubt you would offer a contribution to their loss.

DavidP24

Mercdriver wrote: »

As TadleyBaggie states, only cases that go to the High Court become case law. Suggesting otherwise would encourage people to challenge, risking higher costs making a £100 fine be dwarfed by £1000+ in court fees.

ETA: In your case, you had reason to challenge as you were doing 60 on cruise and the measurement allows true speed to be measured manually. You are suggesting that they are inherently faulty and thereby encouraging people to routinely challenge them, which since they are type approved could be an expensive project for them, and I doubt you would offer a contribution to their loss.

I was not suggesting that they are inherently faulty, I stated the facts; that if they are not maintained they can become unreliable. One of the reasons they use a percentage above the speed limit is to be sure, I also pointed out that the lines are a backup. They were introduced when the case was lost. We now have a belt and braces audit if you trip a camera.

In my case I knew I was not speeding and they did not provide the line evidence despite requests which is how I knew the case was worth fighting.

I think if we are driving we know what speed we are doing, we know if we get flashed and we look at our speedos, so people know if they should fight it.

DavidP24

TadleyBaggie wrote: »

There is no case law, the devices are approved and are deemed accurate unless proved otherwise. Your case did not create any case law, only cases that have progressed to the high court can create case law.

I did not say my case created case law, I am well aware that only the High Court, Appeal Court and Supreme Court can create case law.

I did not say the case was in the UK either, the simple fact is that the machines were shown to be potentially unreliable of not maintained according to guidance. To avoid that risk the lines were introduced.

TadleyBaggie

DavidP24 wrote: »

I did not say the case was in the UK either...

So of no help to anyone who was caught speeding in the UK then.

I'm a regular on Pepipoo and the number cases where the GATSO speeds have been shown to be inaccurate is vanishingly small. I can only recall one case in the last 5 years.

Mercdriver

DavidP24 wrote: »

I did not say my case created case law, I am well aware that only the High Court, Appeal Court and Supreme Court can create case law.

I did not say the case was in the UK either, the simple fact is that the machines were shown to be potentially unreliable of not maintained according to guidance. To avoid that risk the lines were introduced.

You should have made all this clear in your post as not to do so is in my view irresponsible. Someone reading your post and taking it at face value might decide to fight a case in court and come out of it the wrong way. You might not think so, but there are a few cases on pepipoo where people are continuing to fight even though they are vanishingly unlikely to succeed based on 'advice' they have got from outside that forum, ignoring advice from people qualified to give legal advice.

DavidP24

Mercdriver wrote: »

You should have made all this clear in your post as not to do so is in my view irresponsible. Someone reading your post and taking it at face value might decide to fight a case in court and come out of it the wrong way. You might not think so, but there are a few cases on pepipoo where people are continuing to fight even though they are vanishingly unlikely to succeed based on 'advice' they have got from outside that forum, ignoring advice from people qualified to give legal advice.

Good Advice, people should always speak to a Solicitor for legal advice, online info is just that it may not be relevamt.

Of course in many cases a Police Officer will offer you 3 points if you accept it there and then, so you have to rely on your common sense, if you were speeding you know you were speeding,

*** THIS POST IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE CONSULT A SOLICITOR ***