Rent witheld with LL agreement, but then they changed their minds!

Pallina

Hi, so I am after a bit of advice. Following a boiler failure, and the impossibility to get an engineer out that same afternoon / evening - we called the LL and notified them we would be moving for a night to an hotel and bill it to them, as we had at the time a 18months old baby with a cold (it was the coldest week in record this year, count our luck!) and his room gro-clock was indicating 12 degrees at the time (7pm approx.). We also had no hot water. Over the phone, my husband was extremely clear (he works in finance) that we would expense the cost of the hotel for one night by reducing rent the following month and we would organise to stay at friends for the following nights. He received no push back from the LLady or any questions. Fast forward to 3 weeks later, we are being chased by agency and LLord (who doesn't pick up the phone) for the rent. LLord says we never notified them (so basically calling us liars) and has instructed agency to collect the money or we will incur in charges.
Do we stand any chance as the conversation was over the phone? It's their word against ours after all. This has become a question of principle now for my husband as they have been pretty unreasonable so far. Moreover, they live in a villa in Holland park, are in Switzerland until mid Jan... so while to them it might be nothing the hotel cost (£118) to us is pretty much the whole xmas presents budget! Really Really annoyed, as we HAVE told them and we thought we were dealing with professional and reasonable people...

ST1991

Any amendments to rent need to be put in writing. And whilst you are correct to contact the LL, you probably should have informed the agency too (as you probably pay your rent to them?)

Perhaps you need to put it in writing NOW to them, and see how they react.

Lloyd90

Should have got it confirmed by email or something.

Also is it really that important to go into a hotel for just one night?

Could you not have just plugged in an electric heater for one night?

Seems rather excessive but that's just my opinion.

Pixie5740

Pallina wrote: »

Hi, so I am after a bit of advice. Following a boiler failure, and the impossibility to get an engineer out that same afternoon / evening - we called the LL and notified them we would be moving for a night to an hotel and bill it to them, as we had at the time a 18months old baby with a cold (it was the coldest week in record this year, count our luck!) and his room gro-clock was indicating 12 degrees at the time (7pm approx.). We also had no hot water. Over the phone, my husband was extremely clear (he works in finance) that we would expense the cost of the hotel for one night by reducing rent the following month and we would organise to stay at friends for the following nights. He received no push back from the LLady or any questions. Fast forward to 3 weeks later, we are being chased by agency and LLord (who doesn't pick up the phone) for the rent. LLord says we never notified them (so basically calling us liars) and has instructed agency to collect the money or we will incur in charges.
Do we stand any chance as the conversation was over the phone? It's their word against ours after all. This has become a question of principle now for my husband as they have been pretty unreasonable so far. Moreover, they live in a villa in Holland park, are in Switzerland until mid Jan... so while to them it might be nothing the hotel cost (£118) to us is pretty much the whole xmas presents budget! Really Really annoyed, as we HAVE told them and we thought we were dealing with professional and reasonable people...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Are you for real? Your landlord couldn't get a gas safe engineer out to you the same day so you told him that you would move into a hotel and bill him for it? I'm surprised at that point your landlord didn't tell you to Foxtrot Oscar.

Legally, you are not entitled to bill the landlord for staying in a hotel, that was YOUR choice. You could have huddled together and got some electric heaters and/or asked your landlord to supply some heaters but you chose to go and stay in a hotel. I assume you also own a kettle and therefore did have access to hot water. 12 degrees isn't even particularly cold! Your landlord just has to sort out the heating within a reasonable time frame and that doesn't mean the very same day.

You don't have anything in writing and you're not legally entitled to anything. Did your landlord even agree to anything or did she just say nothing in the hope that you and your husband would get off the phone? Moving into a hotel for the night was unnecessary.

The fact your landlord lives in Holland Park and is holidaying in Switzerland doesn't alter the fact that legally you are entitled to jack !!!!.

saajan_12

Pallina wrote: »

Hi, so I am after a bit of advice. Following a boiler failure, and the impossibility to get an engineer out that same afternoon / evening - perfectly reasonable they couldn't get someone the same day - we called the LL and notified them we would be moving for a night to an hotel - up to you and bill it to them - now that's not reasonable. The LL is not liable for your choices after a few hours of boiler issues and further, you can't just decide to bill them. , as we had at the time a 18months old baby with a cold (it was the coldest week in record this year, count our luck!) and his room gro-clock was indicating 12 degrees at the time (7pm approx.). We also had no hot water. Over the phone, my husband was extremely clear (he works in finance) that we would expense the cost of the hotel for one night by reducing rent the following month - he can be as clear as he likes, this isn't his decision to make (without falling into rent arrears that is) and we would organise to stay at friends for the following nights. He received no push back from the LLady or any questions - what does 'no pushback mean? what was said, if anything, to suggest the LL agreed to cover an over-reaching bill? . Fast forward to 3 weeks later, we are being chased by agency and LLord (who doesn't pick up the phone) for the rent. LLord says we never notified them - you're supposed to notify them of repair issues to the 'address for serving notices' in writing so the appropriate people can deal with it. So technically you didn't formally notify them. (so basically calling us liars) and has instructed agency to collect the money or we will incur in charges.- fair enough
Do we stand any chance as the conversation was over the phone? It's their word against ours after all.- What would your word says anyway? You don't suggest you actually got an agreement to cover the hotel. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too convincing that you verbally had an agreement for the LL to cover a bill that's quite so premature and over reaching. This has become a question of principle now for my husband as they have been pretty unreasonable so far. Moreover, they live in a villa in Holland park, are in Switzerland until mid Jan - irrelevant... so while to them it might be nothing the hotel cost (£118) to us is pretty much the whole xmas presents budget! Really Really annoyed, as we HAVE told them and we thought we were dealing with professional and reasonable people...

Your LL is only expected to act as per the timescales a "reasonable owner occupier" would. That does not require them to have someone out the same day, particularly in winter when such engineers are busier! Further, you didn't need a hotel, but could have used an electric heater in one room or stayed with family for the interim period.

So, the LL isn't liable for your choice to go to a hotel prematurely. As such, I imagine you'd need an explicit agreement in writing to prove the LL agreed to cover something they didn't have to at all.

PersianCatLady

Lloyd90 wrote: »

Should have got it confirmed by email or something.

Also is it really that important to go into a hotel for just one night?

Could you not have just plugged in an electric heater for one night?

Seems rather excessive but that's just my opinion.

I totally agree with you there.


I lived in a new-build flat a while ago and one day in August the combi-boiler stopped working, despite constant complaining it wasn't repaired until the end of November.


I asked about a reduction in rent to cover the cost of travelling elsewhere to shower but I was told that if I stopped paying the full rent I would be evicted.


I am so glad that I no longer have to rent.

G_M

Your thread title was

Rent witheld with LL agreement, but then they changed their minds!

but then

Pallina wrote: »

.....we called the LL and notified them we would be moving for a night to an hotel and bill it to them,....... my husband was extremely clear ......
He received no push back from the LLady or any questions...........

That does not sound like 'agreement'. It sounds like "Hmmm I'm not respnding to that without thinking about it so I'm saying nothing for now."

Since nothing was subsequently agreed in writing, there was no agreement.

And I'm not surprised - a very unrealistic request. The property was no 'uninhabitable'.

If you pursue this, apart from not suceding (unless you are very lucky) you are likely to get a S21 Notice as the LL will decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

You don't say whether, or when, the boiler was fixed so I can only assume the LL took action and fixed the boiler. Sorted.

[Deleted User]

I agree that your expectations were unrealistic.., no one could have gotten a boiler working instantaneously. Even when a baby has a cold, there's things called blankets and clothing to keep them warm (and if they have a temp, they shouldn't be over warm anyway).

You didn't request that they pay money for a hotel room, you told them you were staying in a hotel and you were taking thecost from the rent, from what you say. I agree that this is not an agreement, this was a statement on your part.

It will be an expensive lesson. If you are deducting money from the rent, there is a procedure to go through. Google deducting money from rent for repairs (which you weren't even doing), its the same principle. If an agreement was made, to have any surety of the agreement being adhered to, you HAVE to get it in writing.

I am usually the last person to support a LL or LA.., but I'm sorry, you are wrong in this instance.

Marvel1

If you owed the property, and couldn't get someone out that day, what would you done?

Person_one

£118? Even if you fully believe that it was reasonable to go to a hotel and that the landlady was fine with it, why not a travelodge or similar for £50-75?

glasgowdan

Boiler failure equals family sleeping in one room for a night with an electric heater. 12degrees indoors isn't acceptable for anyone with a baby of course, and in your shoes I'd have been tempted by a hotel but knowing it's at my own expense.