What's the best heating for an old stone house?

theotalbot

I am currently trying to work out the best central heating system for a very old stone cottage, which currently has a Rayburn that has been condemned and a few storage heaters dotted around! I am trying to find the best option for the long term money wise (already guessing it will be a big investment initially), as we may have to rent out the property in the future as well.
New windows and insulation are a must. But, a rural place with no gas, and shail not too far down, oh, and a reluctant grandmother who does not want to dig up the tiles are making options harder to work out. Where to start, electric radiators? air source heat pumps? the house (and water) need HEAT!!! Any advise and realistic costs I should be looking at will be GREATLY appreciated!

Cardew

Firstly don't dismiss electric storage heating. If you are to have electrical heating then storage heating on a good Economy 7 tariff is the cheapest option; and of course you can heat hot water at off-peak rates.

Are the storage heaters working? They are simple devices basically bricks with a heating element.

Oil CH is another option and the one I personally would prefer; but the price of oil is volatile and the post Brexit Sterling devaluation won't help.

Again personally I am not a great fan of Heat Pumps as the price of installing is far too high IMO, albeit if the cottage qualifies, RHI will go a long way to offset that cost. You also take pot luck on getting an system installed correctly. That said there are fans of the system on this forum, especially if the cottage is occupied all day.

Why are new windows 'a must'?. It makes little sense in economic terms to replace windows unless the old frames are rotten.

theotalbot

The windows are about 100 years old, with cracks and gaps where the wood has warped. So much so the curtains blow about!!
The storage heaters work, but are pretty old. Would your suggestion be to look into electric heating systems then? It just seemed like quite a wasteful option initially, that said, I am guessing there are much better options available now!

Cardew

You can spend £thousands on new storage heaters and they will be exactly as efficient at 100%, as your fitted old heaters. By that I mean both will give out the same amount of heat for the same consumption - and thus cost.

Newer models might retain the heat better i.e. not leak heat, but not enough to justify the replacement cost.

Whatever you do stay away from these hyped up electrical heaters filled with a magic ingredient and coated with an exotic substance, they have exactly the same efficiency as a £10 fan heater from Argos.

A._Badger

Don't automatically rule out a real fire - if only as backup for storage radiators. Old houses were not built to be the modern airtight boxes that current fashion dictates and using a chimney the way it was designed to be used is often good for the fabric of the house.

Sonica

I would consider infra red radiators, which you plug into the electric wall in each room. They are cheaper to run than gas because they are so efficient, and there's no annual service or 10 yearly upgrades. They cost about £250 each to buy and they reckon they should last at least 10 years. Also, because they heat objects in the room rather than the air, they should be good for damp too, and you can even fix them to the ceiling.
They may do boilers too, I haven't looked into that.

DigForVictory

We heat our stone house with offspring, usually in woolly sweaters, topped up with hot soup.
Storage heaters are old school but can do the job, a combi boiler with radiators is a little more modern but it's moot as to whether it would suit the character of the property.
Open fireplaces give the illusion of warmth even if much too much goes up the chimney.

Depending on how old the property is, please check for Listed status as that may impact on what sort of double glazing you may install.

Cardew

Sonica wrote: »

I would consider infra red radiators, which you plug into the electric wall in each room. They are cheaper to run than gas because they are so efficient, and there's no annual service or 10 yearly upgrades. They cost about £250 each to buy and they reckon they should last at least 10 years. Also, because they heat objects in the room rather than the air, they should be good for damp too, and you can even fix them to the ceiling.
They may do boilers too, I haven't looked into that.

On this forum there are scores of posts on the merits/demerits of infra red heaters. Anyone contemplating such a system would be advised to search this forum.

Firstly they are no more efficient than any other electrical heater - all are 100% efficient.

As gas costs approx. a quarter of the price of electricity it is a nonsense to say IR heaters are 'cheaper to run than gas'. Even allowing for boiler inefficiency, using gas is around 3 times cheaper to run than any form of electrical heating.*

There is nothing new about IR heating, in the days before central heating my grandmother had one in the unheated bathroom aimed at the 'throne'.

There is of course merit in IR heaters if you are happy to have one 'beamed' at, say, a person sitting in an armchair, but you don't need £250 radiators to do that, cheap models can be obtained for a fraction of that price.

* Did not discuss storage heating because of other factors.

Chumphs

Hi, I'm a first time poster, not sure of the etiquette of jumping in to someone else's thread but seems silly to start a new one for exactly the same discussion and we're in a very similar position to you - buying a semi rural detached 150 year old stone house off the gas grid with only electric heaters and a coal powered Rayburn. It's EPC rating is as low as you can get.

It seems really difficult to get useful, unbiased advice online but after looking into it we are considering oil CH. Renewable sources would be nice, but v expensive even with initiatives and don't seem that great for a poorly insulated old stone house. A biomass boiler is interesting but sounds like even with a hopper it needs manually topping up at regular intervals. Electric also seems to limit the amount of hot water readily available and we need it on demand for our family. LPG seems relatively expensive and fiddly and the tanks are pretty ugly! We'd hope to bury the oil tank or build something around it.

Anything will be expensive to install but once done we will have heating and hot water on demand, which is important to us. We will also open the fireplaces back up and install wood burning stoves in 2 downstairs rooms where the flues go through the bedroom walls which we hope will help with heating and keep damp away. It is double glazed already, although some units are blown so we intend to replace those and sort out and drafts. We will probably get rid of the Rayburn as it will be messy and fiddly to keep going.

One other thing we are not sure about that might work for you too is whether to consider internal or external wall insulation, our rooms are big so could lose space inside but then on other forums people suggest the condensation point may be moved to within the wall and damage the stonework. Outside at the front is lovely stonework which would be a shame to lose with outside insulation, especially if it won't make much difference. We're in a conservation area but not listed so could potentially do it though. (The council planning department were really helpful with a quick phone call about that). Hope that helps/gives some ideas!

Cardew

Welcome to the forum Chumphs.

I too would favour Oil CH, you can have boilers with sufficient output to cope with the demands of your house.

Again I would agree with your suggestion of dry-lining the interior of exterior walls to provide good insulation and prevent damp; some of the modern insulating materials e.g. Kingspan are excellent - albeit expensive. I have used it for dry-lining on two buildings(well my builder has!) and am very satisfied with the result.

One tip is to work out where you want the CH pipes and radiators fixings before commencing dry-lining - also make a note of the position of pipes and electrical wiring.

[Deleted User]

Stone cottage - surely an nice big fat log burner to start with