PIP nightmare.

tattycath

Lanzarote1938 wrote: »

But what if she really isn't entitled to the benefit but you have just suggested lying and making things up. Really really bad advice, especially only mentioning your very worst days. Haven't seen this sort of blatant coaching on MSE for a while.

What about the applicant telling the truth or is that no good anymore?

...and what if the OP does experience great difficulty doing things but says that on a good day she can do things (despite there being more bad days when she can't achieve as much), then the assessor goes on the good days that have been mentioned and not the bad days that sound like an afterthought.
What if the advice given wasn't about lying but about being honest as to how the OP is on a bad day?

Lanzarote1938

Lily-Rose wrote: »

FGS, I have NOT suggested making things up.

Do not put words in my mouth.

Telling the truth is what she must do, of course. And at no point did I say lie, so quit making stuff up!

But saying 'say yes to everything' as the poster above suggested is really bad advice!

REALLY bad!

The advice I have given is sound.

You are telling someone to exaggerate then. Does that sound better than blatantly lie? Why can't someone say they can dress themself if that is the truth?

TBH the more someone exaggerates and doesn't have the medical proof to back it up the more likely the assessor will be to dismiss all their claims.

Lily-Rose_3

tattycath wrote: »

...and what if the OP does experience great difficulty doing things but says that on a good day she can do things (despite there being more bad days when she can't achieve as much), then the assessor goes on the good days that have been mentioned and not the bad days that sound like an afterthought.
What if the advice given wasn't about lying but about being honest as to how the OP is on a bad day?

Exactly!

Lanzarote1938 wrote: »

You are telling someone to exaggerate then. Does that sound better than blatantly lie? Why can't someone say they can dress themself if that is the truth?

TBH the more someone exaggerates and doesn't have the medical proof to back it up the more likely the assessor will be to dismiss all their claims.

I'm not even going to justify this ^ with a response.

I'm done with you. Go bug someone else.

belinda1960

Agree 100% with Lilyrose.

Alice Holt offers superb guidance, but from my experience to answer "Yes", followed by "but" will simply lead to an HCP typing in yes on their computer software/ database. Asessors generally ignore the additional words because they are lazy and the PIP computerised software is inflexible.

As for stating "Yes", but not reliably etc. Again, that just gets recorded as a Yes.

Lanzarote asks ..."Why can't someone say they can dress themself if that is the truth?" The reality for many is they cannot do so reliably, safely etc. Thus, to say "No" is valid (and honest) when supplemented by the correct legal reasoning. The HCP will ignore the superlatives, but record a No.

Granted one can appeal and get certain errors corrected, but what a waste of public money and cause of undue stress for legitimate claimants.

Lily-Rose_3

belinda1960 wrote: »

Agree 100% with Lilyrose.

Alice Holt offers superb guidance, but from my experience to answer "Yes", followed by "but" will simply lead to an HCP typing in yes on their computer software/ database. Asessors generally ignore the additional words because they are lazy and the PIP computerised software in inflexible.

As for stating that "Yes", but not reliably etc. Again, that just gets recorded as a Yes.

Lanzarote asks ..."Why can't someone say they can dress themself if that is the truth?" The reality for many is they cannot do so reliably, safely etc. Thus, to say "No" is valid when supplemented by the correct legal reasoning. The HCP will ignore the superlatives, but record a No.

Granted one can appeal and get such errors corrected, but what a waste of public money and cause of undue stress for claimants.

Thanks Belinda.

As I said, at no point did I tell anyone to 'lie' and I take great umbrage at someone suggesting that. Of course you must tell the truth.

However. you have to be very careful HOW you answer the questions. Because (as I said earlier) their job is not to make sure you get ESA or PIP; many of these people are paid to get people off it. So any opportunity they get to get someone off it, they will take. So you have to be very careful how you answer the questions. Which is what I was saying.

And you have explained it very well, thank you.

NeilCr

Lily-Rose wrote: »

FGS, I have NOT suggested making things up.

Do not put words in my mouth.

Telling the truth is what she must do, of course. And at no point did I say lie, so quit making stuff up!

But saying 'say yes to everything' as the poster above suggested is really bad advice!

REALLY bad!

I can only assume you work for DWP.

The advice I have given is sound.

I don't work for the DWP!



I think it's more than a little unfair to say Alice was suggesting that the OP says yes to everything. And, as regular readers here will know, Alice gives excellent advice and to say some of it is "bad" is certainly over exaggerating. I've been doing DLA and PIP forms for too many years now so do have some experience

I reckon you can say both "yes but" and "no but" depending on the situation. For (a simple) example I have a bad back - if asked 'can you pick up a cat bowl from the floor" the answer is yes -but it will take me 1 minute because the arthritis in my back means I have to do a) b) and c).

A few weeks ago my back went - if that had become permanent the answer would have been no, but if you insisted I'd have to do a) -z) and it would take me 45 minutes and involve me crawling across the floor etc etc

I'd suggest it's equally as bad saying no to everything as yes to everything. Alice was clear in her comments that the important word was not "yes" or "no" but "but" and I agree with her

EmeraldEye

LANZAROTE19, I have no intention of "making things up" or trying to "exaggerate" because believe it or not I don't need to. There is no amount of money in the world that I'd sell my health for, I want to be healthy and have a future but for now I'm sick and it's not my fault.

I think it's horrible how judgemental some people are, just because someone is on benefits it doesn't mean they are beneath you. If you don't know the facts, you shouldn't jump to conclusions. I didn't ask to be sick, I'd give them back every penny in exchange for good news medically. I loathe being on benefits but I have no choice at present, you shouldn't be so quick to sit behind a keyboard and insinuate that those with illnesses are liars and money grabbing leeches.

It sounds like you think I'm getting thousands a month and going on lavish spending sprees, I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't have the time, energy or wellness to socialise or take myself out for treat days. I don't own expensive gadgets or fancy clothes, I live a very basic life on benefits but the truth doesn't sound as good as how the media portray it, sensationalism at its finest for the naive masses to swallow.

As I've said previously I am already on ESA/DLA, I have been for 18 months and I did not need an assessment for either, I was assessed "on paper" because my medical condition speaks for itself. I won't apologise for MY illness annoying you, trust me it annoys me and my family a whole lot more.

To everyone else, I feel it's actually my own fault the fact that PIP have requested a face to face assessment because when I was filling in the form I really didn't go to any great lengths, I wrongly assumed that the PIP department would have access to my DLA notes and now after a few weeks of reading very informative posts on forums like this I have realised my mistake and I won't make the same mistake twice. I will be sure to disclose the full extent of my condition during the assessment and I have definitely taken on board the "yes/no" approach not being advisable as obviously interpretation is key and a simple yes/no answer can mean one thing to someone and something entirely different to someone else, so I will fully explain in terminology that I feel best defines the limitations of my condition.

Thanks everyone, the advice is greatly appreciated.

NeilCr

belinda1960 wrote: »

Agree 100% with Lilyrose.

Alice Holt offers superb guidance, but from my experience to answer "Yes", followed by "but" will simply lead to an HCP typing in yes on their computer software/ database. Asessors generally ignore the additional words because they are lazy and the PIP computerised software is inflexible.

As for stating "Yes", but not reliably etc. Again, that just gets recorded as a Yes.

Lanzarote asks ..."Why can't someone say they can dress themself if that is the truth?" The reality for many is they cannot do so reliably, safely etc. Thus, to say "No" is valid (and honest) when supplemented by the correct legal reasoning. The HCP will ignore the superlatives, but record a No.

Granted one can appeal and get certain errors corrected, but what a waste of public money and cause of undue stress for legitimate claimants.

Can you give us the background to your experience of the DWP assessor just typing "yes" in please. I'd be interested because I haven't seen any clear evidence that this is happening (not to say it isn't)

Thanks

NeilCr

EmeraldEye I hope it goes well for you. Sounds like you have your head screwed on!

As you say, the way to go is to be honest and to get across the full effect of your condition as best you can. Personally I believe it's important to concentrate on this and not worry about whether the assessor is out to get you or is lazy or whatever. I don't think the majority of them are, anyway, but that can be a distraction and take you away from making your case

Good luck

Alice_Holt

Dear EmeraldEye,

In addition to fully explaining how your condition(s) affect your ability to do the PIP activities / descriptors reliably (per my post @ 2).

1) Take any copies of relevant medical evidence not attached to your PIP form and give these to the assessor;

2) Take some notes with you based on a typical week detailing the difficulties you have with PIP descriptors (to help you remember) - be aware where you score the necessary points;

3) If a family member / friend can attend with you - then ask them to make notes at the assessment (it's a good idea to let the assessment centre know beforehand that you will be accompanied);

4) Try not to use public transport (have a look at the Benefits & Work page I linked to @ post 2), get a friend to take you or get a taxi there (fares can be refunded - see the CAB adviceguide link post 2 again).

As Neil said be honest in your answers and good luck.

Bw.