Changing to Joint Tenants

engjan

My partner and I wish to change from tenants in common to joint tenants. The fact that we were registered as tenants in common when we bought our property was essentially a mistake which we have just lived with but now we want to put this right.

But this is not proving to be simple. I went to my local solicitor who told me that they could do it but I could save the (minimum) £250 +VAT she would charge and do it myself because it is very easy, all I had to do was complete form RX3 and (she thought) AP1. She advised I call the Land Registry helpline which I did and they told me I needed to complete RX3 and ST5 and confirmed nothing else was required. I duly completed the forms and sent them off.

Then I received a letter from the Land Registry saying they I also need to send them 'a certified copy of a new trust deed showing that everyone with a share or interest in the property agrees to the change'. They suggested a conveyancer could help me draw this up.

I tried to get some advice from an online conveyancer but the response I got was that they thought the ST5 should be enough. So I googled a bit and found very little information - it seems that not many people do this. I did find one site selling a 'Declaration as to Beneficial Joint Ownership' template form for this very purpose, but I've no idea if this is a deed of trust or just a substitute for a ST5.

I'd really like to hear from anyone who has experience of doing this either themselves or for a client and can help me understand exactly what I need to do. With so much conflicting advice I'm not sure who to trust.

Please help!

xylophone

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

engjan

Thank you, although it's the other way we want to go, from tenants in common to joint tenants, but there is an equivalent page for that and it does say I need a new trust deed. But having had one solicitor and one conveyancer give me incorrect information I'm a little bit wary about paying someone hundreds of pounds to get it right.

There are plenty of online DIY templates out there for changing to tenants in common but nothing for changing to joint tenants, and yet it seems to me to be a much simpler document to create. In fact it's only purpose seems to be to satisfy the Land Registry that we both agree to the transfer and then it becomes redundant once the change has been made. I don't really understand why that needs a deed of trust rather than a declaration, but arguing about it isn't going to get me anywhere. I just need to find a professional who understands what's required so I'll keep looking.

I'd still be interested to hear the experiences of anyone that's done it though.

booksurr

engjan wrote: »

I'd still be interested to hear the experiences of anyone that's done it though.

wait until Monday (Tuesday?) when the official Land Registry Representative will next be on these boards and I am 100% certain that they will give you cast iron instruction on what forms you need to send to them

getmore4less

In practice joint tenants can have IHT implications for partners that don't occur with spouses/civil partners.


have you read
http://blog.landregistry.gov.uk/cancellation-form-restrictions/

G_M

engjan wrote: »

Thank you, although it's the other way we want to go, from tenants in common to joint tenants, but there is an equivalent page for that and it does say I need a new trust deed. But having had one solicitor and one conveyancer give me incorrect information I'm a little bit wary about paying someone hundreds of pounds to get it right.

There are plenty of online DIY templates out there for changing to tenants in common but nothing for changing to joint tenants, and yet it seems to me to be a much simpler document to create. In fact it's only purpose seems to be to satisfy the Land Registry that we both agree to the transfer and then it becomes redundant once the change has been made. I don't really understand why that needs a deed of trust rather than a declaration, but arguing about it isn't going to get me anywhere. I just need to find a professional who understands what's required so I'll keep looking.

I'd still be interested to hear the experiences of anyone that's done it though.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe it's because with tenants in common a Deed (usually) exists. This Deed might in fact involve more people than are registered with the LR. For example there might be 5 people (say 5 siblings who inherited for example) who each have a legal interest in the property. The LR does not register 5 names as owners, so 2 would be recorded as the Registered Owners, presumably with a restriction registered the Charges Register, and the Deed would specify the rights of th other 3.

So if switching to 2 names as Joint Owners, the LR must be satisfied that all 5 (in this hypethetical example) have given consent.

This is simply a guess - I'm not an expert!

Richard_Webster

Changing to joint tenants just means that if one of you dies the other automatically inherits the other half regardless of anything in any will or the intestacy laws (if you haven't made a will). So make wills leaving your shares to each other.

G_M

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Changing to joint tenants just means that if one of you dies the other automatically inherits the other half regardless of anything in any will or the intestacy laws (if you haven't made a will). So make wills leaving your shares to each other.

That's certainly good advice Richard.

But I'd be interested to know if my explanation of why a change to Joint Tenants requires a Deed was vaguely accuarte or a load of Saturday blarney!

And OP still needs some pointers on how to achieve the switch. Is there a simple template he can use to Execute a deed that would satisfy LR? Or does he need to find a solicitor who knows his job better than the one he seems to have already approached!

Richard_Webster

In answer to G-M, you could have a deed of trust, but a lot of tenancies in common are created simply by choosing an option in the standard TR1 deed to say that the buyers/transferees are to hold the property as tenants in common in equal shares (or in particular proportions e.g. 2/3rd - 1/3rd.) That acts as a declaration of trust.

I think it would be useful to know OP's reason for wanting the change. People often sever their joint tenancies when there is a relationship breakdown, but if the couple are together, and trust each other why is it so necessary to go to all the trouble of altering this the other way?

Only reason I can see is to protect themselves from other family members who might otherwise inherit if one died - hence the reason to make wills.

Land_Registry

engjan - can you email us please with the title number/address so we can take a look at the specifics? Just add MSE thread as the subject

Our online guidance needs reviewing as the blog and Practice Guide, which are correct, seem to be out of step with the general online guidance itself

It would help us to clear that up and your own specific situation if we could look at what you have submitted and what decisions have been made by our people to date.

It is a complex area not least because rhe register is not the definitive source re joint tenants/tenants in common clarification

engjan

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Richard Webster: the most important thing to us is that if anything happens to one of us, the other one has somewhere to live by inheriting the house. You are right that a will does that, but wills can be declared invalid and they can be challenged. As joint tenants, the survivor would automatically inherit the house, even if either of these were to occur.

And OP still needs some pointers on how to achieve the switch. Is there a simple template he can use to Execute a deed that would satisfy LR? Or does he need to find a solicitor who knows his job better than the one he seems to have already approached!

G_M: you've hit the nail on the head.

I shall email the Land Registry representative and report back as my application progresses. Thanks again.