On Economy 7, nearly tricked by German Clay Heaters salesman

Ken2000

Hi, I'm new to MSE, but thought that I would a) share my experiences, and b) ask for advice. By the way, the heaters were made in Germany, the salesman wasn't German!

My other half and I live in a smallish semi-detached house in the Highlands of Scotland, where the weather can be changeable to say the least. We've got triple glazing, and have managed to get free external insulating fixed to our house, so our house is reasonably well insulated. We currently have 3 old storage heaters in the house (kitchen, hallway and top of the stairs), with only an input and output control dial (that needs a 1p piece to turn the dial) and a wood burning stove in the living room. The bathroom has underfloor heating and a towel rail. We also have one panel heater in a small upstairs office and one in the spare bedroom.

We both work in the outdoors, guiding in the mountains, so have periods of less work (I.e. now), when we're in the house a lot more, and periods like Jan-April when we're out most days of the week.

We keep the storage heaters on a low setting, even when it's cold, but we try to use them effectively, I.e. turn the output up at around 5/6pm, but the house is generally quite cool during the day.

In the quest for more controllable heat, which our storage heaters are definitely not, my other half got in touch with Greener Energy Group, who came round a couple of days ago to carry out a 'free survey' (their words!). Turns out it wasn't a free survey at all, but a hard sales pitch for German clay heaters, going by the brand 'Komfort', which I cannot find anything more about on-line, other than on the Greener Energy Group website. The salesman was pleasant enough, and measured our house, before showing us one of their clay bricks, which he plugged in, surprise, surprise, it warmed up, before cooling down once unplugged.

It was getting towards the end, and he said that we would need a minimum of two heaters, one 1.3kW heater in the kitchen, and one 2.5kW heater in the hallway, which would heat the upstairs too. Total cost, an eye watering £4171! He then said that would could get a £600 discount if we signed up there and then. Having never even heard of German clay heaters before, I said that it was a bit unfair to expect someone to make a decision there and then, having only heard of these clay heaters 2 hours ago, to which he said that we could sign up, but then let him know one way or the other by the following morning.

With a get-out clause, I said that we would sign up, but as soon as he left, I was straight on the internet, researching as much as I could, and fortunately stumbled across many threads and articles, including a number on here, that suggested that by going ahead with these heaters, we would be paying way too much for the heaters to be delivered and installed, potentially have higher bills, and have very little comeback. I sent him a text that evening letting him know that there was no way we would be going ahead. Phew, glad that I found out what I did.

It's unbelievably unethical to put those sorts of pressures (£600 discount if you sign there and then) on potentially a multi-thousand pound, long term expenditure.

So, based on the above, can anyone suggest what a more cost effective solution might be? Would more modern and controllable storage heaters be the way forward? If so, does anyone have any recommendations?

molerat

If you want economical "controllable" heating you need gas or oil. Storage heaters on an off peak tariff are probably the most economical form of electric heating. Maybe ASHP could be worth looking at but the 2p Scottish surcharge adds extra cost to that option.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Ken2000, yes use your existing NSH effectively.

We keep the storage heaters on a low setting, even when it's cold, but we try to use them effectively, I.e. turn the output up at around 5/6pm, but the house is generally quite cool during the day.

- assuming E7 or similar tariff
- assuming hot water is also E7 or similar tariff

A NSH is a can with bricks in it, the more bricks the more cheap stored heat, reducing the amount of cheap stored heat you store simply means you have to use a more expensive alternative heat.

There are I]as you now know[/I millions of posts on German heaters and millions of people who sign away their rights within an hour or so, without checking first and regret it.

I sent him a text that evening letting him know that there was no way we would be going ahead

And what happened, he replied to you in writing and agreed to cancel, a full refund and pay all 100% of your deposit back immediately and no further action ?

Ken2000

Thanks, he replied saying no problem, and that would we be interested in him keeping the paperwork in case we changed our minds. I told him not to bother.

matelodave

I would ask for the paperwork back - do not let him keep it. Why would he want it.

Be very wary unless you've got unequivocal confirmation that the contract has been cancelled and is now null and void. "no problem" isn't really confirmation.

cbrown372

Also Scotland with no access to gas or oil heating. My heaters are Dimplex and now some 26 years old so I had a look at their website and on reading about their Quantum heaters I'm going to get my spark to look at them and we will discuss if its worth changing over to newer ones

Ken2000

cbrown372 wrote: »

Also Scotland with no access to gas or oil heating. My heaters are Dimplex and now some 26 years old so I had a look at their website and on reading about their Quantum heaters I'm going to get my spark to look at them and we will discuss if its worth changing over to newer ones

It would be interesting to hear your sparky's opinions about the Quantum heaters, because they're not cheap! I just can't work out whether it's worth spending a lot on replacing our storage heaters with more modern ones, as I'm not sure whether the benefit (and saving in energy bills, if there is one) is worth it.

coffeehound

Ken2000 wrote: »

It would be interesting to hear your sparky's opinions about the Quantum heaters, because they're not cheap! I just can't work out whether it's worth spending a lot on replacing our storage heaters with more modern ones, as I'm not sure whether the benefit (and saving in energy bills, if there is one) is worth it.

Dimplex say:

"Quantum is up to 27% cheaper to run than a standard storage heater system. It's also up to 47% cheaper to run than an electric convector or radiator system."

matelodave

coffeehound wrote: »

Dimplex say:

"Quantum is up to 27% cheaper to run than a standard storage heater system. It's also up to 47% cheaper to run than an electric convector or radiator system."

Well, they would say that wouldn't they. In the end a kwh is a kwh however it's delivered.

If it takes 10kwh to heat your room for a day then you either pay for it as you use it on a peak rate tariff using a fan heater, oil filled rad or a very expensive German one filled with magic clay or fairy dust.

Alternatively you can store it up overnight in a storage heater on an off-peak tariff and let it out slowly during the day. A more modern storage heater might be better at saving the heat for later but it will still take 10kwh to deliver the same amount of heat through the day.

Better controls might help you manage the output to suit you better but it will only cost less if you use less, ie by turning the thermostat down

Cardew

coffeehound wrote: »

Dimplex say:

"Quantum is up to 27% cheaper to run than a standard storage heater system. It's also up to 47% cheaper to run than an electric convector or radiator system."

The term 'up to' is just a 'get out of jail' card.

If you lend me £10,000 you will get 'up to' 18% interest on that money. That means you might get 0.00001% interest;)

Richie-from-the-Boro

coffeehound wrote: »

Dimplex say:

"Quantum is up to 27% cheaper to run than a standard storage heater system. It's also up to 47% cheaper to run than an electric convector or radiator system."

Carlsberg as you know is the best beer in the world .. .. .. Probably.