Music grades

Cakeguts

Prinzessilein wrote: »

I speak fluent German...I know that I speak it fluently, I can happily pick up a newspaper and read it, or watch a German film, or understand my German relatives....however, when I wanted to be able to prove it to other people, I paid to sit a nationally recognized qualification.(GCE O-Level...A-Level...foundation degree)

I am a more than competent mathematician....I COULD have simply got books from the library and studied them and decided that I was 'good' at maths and been content with that....however, I wanted a recognized qualification and to eventually share my passion for maths with others - as a teacher...so I paid for tuition in the subject - to post-graduate level

Equally, my younger sister I a rather talented musician....she has proven her ability to various organizations and associations by passing recognized examinations in her various instruments...and throughout the UK (and beyond) the numerical grading is understood and accepted...oh, and she had to sit theory exams after grade 5...as has previously been stated, grade 5 is equivalent to a GC(S)E O-level ...and grade 8 to an A-level.

You are trying to compare apples with pears.

Imagine a German exam. You have to read a book with not many words in it to a listener. The listener is going to mark you on how you read the words with fluent reading expected and how you pronounce the
words. You get marks for these things. You will not be asked anything about the book, when it was written, anything about the author or the historical context or the meanings of the words all you will be asked to do is to read it Then you take the next exam and it is exactly the same principle but this short book has more difficult words in it than the first one. Then you can go on and take 8 of these exams and get marks on how you read and pronounce the words for all of the 8 exams. Would you consider that someone who could do this was fluent at German or ready to get a job teaching German or ready to get any job where you needed to be able to speak German? This example shows how grade exams compare to being a playing professional musician. What grades test is extremely narrow. In order to be good at playing a musical instrument you have to know a lot more than what need to know to pass a grade exam..

I can't think of any organisation in music that would accept someone who had only passed grade exams. I would expect them to have done a music degree as well or to have done an audition as well. Not just the grade exam. The point is that in order to do an audition you do not need to have passed any grades and you can get a degree in music without passing any grades. You should not teach an instrument if you have only passed grade 8 because you have nothing to offer your students. You should not teach an instrument if you have only passed a teaching diploma because you have nothing to offer your students.

Your sister may be a very talented musician but that doesn't change the fact that children do pass grade 8 when they are at primary school. It also doesn't change the fact that some children pass grade 8 only two years after starting to play an instrument.

If you start from the other end and without knowing anything about grade exams except that children take grade 8 at primary school and pass would you recommend that someone pays the entry fee for a 14 year old to take grade 4 or would you suggest that they play a solo in a school concert instead especially if the child came from a poor family?

GwylimT

Cakeguts wrote: »

Why? What difference did it make?

I assume that you wanted a degree in order to get a job or a qualification in physics.

You have demonstrated very nicely how adults do not understand grade exams. Grades are not qualifications in music they are only qualifications in grades. What they are like is if someone got a mark and certificate at school for knowing part of the periodic table in chemistry. Not how it was used but just what some of the symbols meant and in isolation from any other chemistry and then they could get another mark and certificate for learning a bit more of it and so on until they had learned 8 bits of it and got marks and certificates for learning the bits. Nothing else just the symbols, not how to use them or any information about the elements. Just learning by rote in total isolation from any other chemistry. This is what grade exams are in music learning notes in increasing numbers in each exam.

You do not need to know anything about the composer, how the composition was put together, what allowances the composer made for the historical instruments in use at the time, who influenced the composer, the historical context of the time or any other works by the same composer. All you need to be able to do is to attempt to copy how the music is played on a CD that you get with the music. For this attempt at copying you will be awarded a mark. That mark will only apply to the music that you attempted to copy for that exam. It doesn't apply to any other music that you might play. The mark cannot be transferred to any other music playing.

You really are completely bonkers aren't you. Very odd how you copy and paste some random waffle that has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It is almost presenting as some sort of paranoia or mental delusion.

I'll happily answer your questions without posting a large amount of ill thought out mental waffle.

Why? I enjoy physics and I'm rather good at it.

What difference did it make? It allowed to me to study with world renowned physicists, it also enabled me to work on ground breaking studies, if I gave you my real name you could read all of my published papers. Thirdly it brought me a huge salary.

Gingernutty

You clearly have some axe to grind over this topic and I will make this my last post.

Students at A Level have to be at Grade 8 as a bare minimum to join the course.

That doesn't mean that's all they know.

A well rounded student will have studied for their exams along with general musical knowledge and more specialist topics including composition.

For me, I got to grade 5 flute. I studied music in class at CSE Level (and got a 1). We studied Mozart's 40th Symphony and opera as a topic. I sang and played the flute for the recording of my exam pieces.

The grades are not the only criteria for students who wish to join orchestras, choirs and go on to study higher and further qualifications. They are just one criteria which is a quick 'at a glance' guide which gives some measure of technical proficiency.

Yes, auditions are held, but auditions and interviews are time constrained and may not cover everything.

There are no auditions unless the applicant fills in an application and meets a minimum standard.

That minimum standard is measured by the Royal College of Music grade system....

robatwork

BEE IN THE BONNET AWARD 2016 GOES TO.....CAKEGUTS

Please come to the podium to collect your award and certificate.


(Note the certificate can't be used for anything outside of this forum)

peachyprice

Goodness, this is getting as tedious as an Annbarbs thread.

DevilsAdvocate1

Cakeguts wrote: »

You can't trade grade exams in for some sort of music degree either. Also you don't know but your playing could have been good enough to pass a grade exam. They aren't very difficult to pass. You think they are more difficult than they are. People often do. All it needed was for you to play the music set on a grade syllabus and then play it to an examiner. That is all a grade exam is. It is exactly like learning to play something for Brownies and then getting a certificate for it. The only difference is that for a grade exam you have to pay an entry fee. So for a grade exam think learning to play something for Brownies but paying upward of £38 for the playing and the badge.

You don't just play the pieces in the exam. You do other stuff as well such as sight reading, scales etc. When you get your results, you get a score sheet so you can see exactly what you did well on and what needs to improve.

Cakeguts

DevilsAdvocate1 wrote: »

You don't just play the pieces in the exam. You do other stuff as well such as sight reading, scales etc. When you get your results, you get a score sheet so you can see exactly what you did well on and what needs to improve.

If you find yourself in the position where you need to take grade exams to find out what you need to improve you need to change teachers and get a better one.

If you are paying a teacher to teach you to play a musical instrument and you then pay for a grade exam to show you what you need to improve on you are then paying twice for the same service.

I can't think of any other situation where someone will willingly £100s for exactly the same service.

Cakeguts

GwylimT wrote: »

You really are completely bonkers aren't you. Very odd how you copy and paste some random waffle that has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It is almost presenting as some sort of paranoia or mental delusion.

I'll happily answer your questions without posting a large amount of ill thought out mental waffle.

Why? I enjoy physics and I'm rather good at it.

What difference did it make? It allowed to me to study with world renowned physicists, it also enabled me to work on ground breaking studies, if I gave you my real name you could read all of my published papers. Thirdly it brought me a huge salary.

Yes a huge salary so you didn't just get a certificate and nothing else did you? So you can't compare this with grade exams where you do only get a certificate and nothing else. As I said and as you have proved adults don't understand grade exams.

Cakeguts

peachyprice wrote: »

Goodness, this is getting as tedious as an Annbarbs thread.

You don't have to read it.

Cakeguts

Gingernutty wrote: »

You clearly have some axe to grind over this topic and I will make this my last post.

Students at A Level have to be at Grade 8 as a bare minimum to join the course.

That doesn't mean that's all they know.

A well rounded student will have studied for their exams along with general musical knowledge and more specialist topics including composition.

For me, I got to grade 5 flute. I studied music in class at CSE Level (and got a 1). We studied Mozart's 40th Symphony and opera as a topic. I sang and played the flute for the recording of my exam pieces.

The grades are not the only criteria for students who wish to join orchestras, choirs and go on to study higher and further qualifications. They are just one criteria which is a quick 'at a glance' guide which gives some measure of technical proficiency.

Yes, auditions are held, but auditions and interviews are time constrained and may not cover everything.

There are no auditions unless the applicant fills in an application and meets a minimum standard.

That minimum standard is measured by the Royal College of Music grade system....

This doesn't make sense to me. I don't know where you got it from. People can go to university to study music and go to music college to study music without taking any grades. They need A level music to get in so how did they do that? There is an example on this thread of someone doing just that. In fact there are two. Have you not read the rest of the thread?

Are you getting your information from something that is written down somewhere or are you getting it from actual experience? Mine comes from experience. If it is coming from something that you are reading then you don't actually know that you can't get into university with A level music and no grades do you? I know you can. Someone has posted on this thread that you can and yet you are still saying that you can't.