How much would EU citizenship be worth to you?

TrickyTree83

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

mayonnaise wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html
Good news.

Haha, flee, hahahaha.

Anyone who thinks the UK is becoming isolationist ought to do us a favour and flee. They'll always be welcome back when they realise we're not and they got it wrong, as the young often do as they mature.

The ridicule of politics and journalism like this is SO deserved, its the politics of acceptable bigotry.

TrickyTree83

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

gadgetmind wrote: »

It's called leading by example. The way to tackle intolerance and oppression is to be open and inclusive, and it very much isn't to become intolerant and oppressive yourself.

I agree about leading by example, so why tolerate the intolerant?

It boils down to that simple question.

wotsthat

£100 per year

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Clearly the laws do not when LGBT groups, women's rights groups and the media tentatively talk about the oppression that Muslim LGBT people and women face, tentatively for fear of being branded anti-Islamic.

So there's an implementation problem rather than a lack of relevant legislation.

I don't see why anyone should fear being called anti-Islamic if they're implementing (and being seen to implement) the law of the land. Maybe this is something that should be taken up with the PC brigade rather than implementing Burkha bans for example.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Take a look at the Islamic countries in the world, where the Quran rules, are the rights of women and !!!!!exuals protected there? Or are they persecuted and oppressed?

I'm not sure what you're after. Why are you trying so hard to link persecution and oppression to Islam? People persecute other people - it's not gods will - it's a bunch of humans using different techniques to control the behaviours of others. Religion is but one technique.

TrickyTree83

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

wotsthat wrote: »

So there's an implementation problem rather than a lack of relevant legislation.

I don't see why anyone should fear being called anti-Islamic if they're implementing (and being seen to implement) the law of the land. Maybe this is something that should be taken up with the PC brigade rather than implementing Burkha bans for example.

On this yes I'd agree, the PC brigade have a lot to answer for. I would love for us to be able to discuss things like this openly in the top echelons of politics so that we can find a way to move forward without stoking tensions, which is where we find ourselves at the moment. Anything criticising Islam for example is branded islamophobic, even if the critique is justified based on western liberal (truly liberal) values.

wotsthat wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're after. Why are you trying so hard to link persecution and oppression to Islam? People persecute other people - it's not gods will - it's a bunch of humans using different techniques to control the behaviours of others. Religion is but one technique.

Of course an omnipotent being isn't persecuting people, of course people are doing it. But when these people believe that an omnipotent being has commanded them to believe in them and only them, and to follow the rules they allegedly lay down to the letter, and when those rules are oppressive to others we have a compatibility problem when we create laws in a secular country that fight the oppression the religion tries to implement. No?

mwpt

mayonnaise wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html
Good news.

Very intriguing to see how it all plays out. My partner has a UK passport but also the right to an EU one. I have an EU passport but also the right to a UK one (or at least to set the process in motion with an ancestral visa). So we're not really impacted but it would be nice for others (not everyone of course as I was sternly told last time we discussed this).

Btw, I joined up to support this a few months ago, which is basically the same initiative kicked off by a concerned citizen:

http://certeka.org/

wotsthat

£100 per year

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Of course an omnipotent being isn't persecuting people, of course people are doing it. But when these people believe that an omnipotent being has commanded them to believe in them and only them, and to follow the rules they allegedly lay down to the letter, and when those rules are oppressive to others we have a compatibility problem when we create laws in a secular country that fight the oppression the religion tries to implement. No?

There's no compatibility problem. People in the UK are subject to UK law whether they're muslims, christians or believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden.

To bang on about Islam is to fall into the PC brigade's trap. Persecution and oppression should be dealt with in a non-secular way.

TrickyTree83

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

wotsthat wrote: »

There's no compatibility problem. People in the UK are subject to UK law whether they're muslims, christians or believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden.

To bang on about Islam is to fall into the PC brigade's trap. Persecution and oppression should be dealt with in a non-secular way.

How then do you propose to tackle the indelible will of Allah via the Quran, i.e. the oppression of women and non-believers, and the persecution of !!!!!exuals in accordance with UK law without being branded as islamophobic?

Rinoa

Oh dear..

The European Parliament has no plans to give Britons “associated” citizenship — and in any case has no power to do so.
By Harry Cooper
12/10/16, 11:32 AM CET
Updated 12/10/16, 11:35 AM CET
The EU is not considering plans to grant “associate citizenship” to British nationals after the U.K. leaves the bloc, several British media reports notwithstanding.
The suggestion was made in an 66-word amendment floated in the European Parliament to a non-binding resolution on the future of the European Union, voted on Thursday, which has no legal and little political impact on the Brexit negotiations set to start next year.

What’s more, the Lisbon Treaty of the EU doesn’t allow for any kind of citizenship — associated or otherwise — for citizens of countries who don’t belong to the EU. To wit, the bloc’s de facto constitution states that EU citizenship “shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship” and that to obtain EU citizenship a person must “[hold] the nationality of a Member State….” There are no existing plans to change the treaty.
In 2014, the European Parliament voted against schemes whereby non-EU nationals could purchase residency rights in an EU member state. MEPs at the time said: “EU citizenship implies the holding of a stake in the Union and depends on a person’s ties with Europe and the Member States or on personal ties with EU citizens.”
This week’s resolution notes that “the constitutional elements of the Union … are essential, indivisible pillars of the Union…” and that “this constitutional unity cannot be undone during the negotiations of the exit of the United Kingdom from the Union.”

:rotfl:

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-associated-citizenship-eu-brexit-verhofstadt-barnier/

Thrugelmir

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

gadgetmind wrote: »

It's called leading by example. The way to tackle intolerance and oppression is to be open and inclusive, and it very much isn't to become intolerant and oppressive yourself.

Unfortunately many in the world hold a different perspective. The West historically has led by an arrogance of superiority. Which has influenced peoples views.

mwpt

Rinoa wrote: »

Oh dear..

:rotfl:

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-associated-citizenship-eu-brexit-verhofstadt-barnier/

What is wrong with you?

You're taking pleasure (in a possibility) that your fellow countrymen who would like to retain the right to live and work in the EU, may not be able to. Something that affects you not at all, and yet your hatred of the EU drives you to this.

It just seems like an actual horrible thing to do.