How much would EU citizenship be worth to you?

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

People believe a lot of things that aren't true, like the scale of immigration. I don't have the reference, but the majority interviewed had immigration as about 7 times higher than it really was.

indeed so although if immigration were indeed 7 times higher than actual, then we would have about 56 million foreigners out of a population of 65 million : I doubt many believe that.

I'm not sure how people can think that the 5% of Muslims make up a majority. I know there are clusters but still. Assumption that anyone that's not white is Muslim?

the Casey report said that many MUSLIMS thought that the UK was a Muslim country because they never meet anyone that wasn't Muslim.

27% surveyed supported the killings, does that count as a few? It's definintely a minority. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11434695/Over-a-quarter-of-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-the-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.-That-is-far-too-many.html

No that doesn't count as a few.

The point is that the vast majority, over 90%, don't support free speech and won't say 'Je Suis Charlie' include all of our prominent muslin politicians

You seem very sympathetic.

Herzlos

£100 per year

CLAPTON wrote: »

indeed so although if immigration were indeed 7 times higher than actual, then we would have about 56 million foreigners out of a population of 65 million : I doubt many believe that.

I'm just going by the research - lots of people thought that.

the Casey report said that many MUSLIMS thought that the UK was a Muslim country because they never meet anyone that wasn't Muslim.

I can see some thinking that, they tend to be somewhat insular and live in large Muslim communities. I'm not convinced many of them actually think the UK is a Muslim country, because there are still so many differences, even if you live near a Mosque and don't speak English.

No that doesn't count as a few.

I'm not sure what a few would be, and the question was inverted, so it's probably less than that.

The point is that the vast majority, over 90%, don't support free speech and won't say 'Je Suis Charlie' include all of our prominent muslin politicians

Citation?

You seem very sympathetic.

I'd go for understanding, rather than sympathetic. The UK is starting to feel very anti-foreign and I'm sure a lot of Muslim communities are aware of it. Survey I posted in the last link said that 46% felt that the UK was less tolerant of Muslims recently, and I can believe that.

TrickyTree83

Nothing at all. I'm perfectly happy, isolated in little england

Herzlos wrote: »

I'd go for understanding, rather than sympathetic. The UK is starting to feel very anti-foreign and I'm sure a lot of Muslim communities are aware of it. Survey I posted in the last link said that 46% felt that the UK was less tolerant of Muslims recently, and I can believe that.

The West needs to become less tolerant of intolerant teachings.

Those who wish to follow the brand of Islam that teaches that a woman's testimony is worth half as much as a mans, or that women should cover up, that a man can take many wives, that non-believers are a sub-class of citizen, that in a secular "free speech" society they feel they should enjoy special privilege to not be offended, that honour killings are acceptable, that female genital mutilation is acceptable, that Sharia law should govern in the UK, etc... hold views which should not be acceptable in the UK. Understanding is not required, understanding is just another word for apathy on this particular topic. The brand of Islam that causes problems, like Muslim patrols, bombings, killings, rapes is a patriarchal method of government, they simply cannot have the separation of church and state. Turkey used to be secular, now look at it, they arrest secularists like they have committed a crime. According to that brand of Islam - they have!

It's not understanding that's required, it's a spine to say out loud what needs to be said.

If you were to emigrate to Japan (which is homogeneous in the high 90%'s) would you expect them to change the way they act, their laws and their culture to accommodate you? If they didn't, does that make them intolerant? So why in Europe do we issue women a code of conduct to avoid rape by migrants in Germany and Sweden? Shouldn't Europe be telling the migrants they need to act in a particular way in the West? What is the world coming to when this happens:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html

Crazy.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm just going by the research - lots of people thought that.



I can see some thinking that, they tend to be somewhat insular and live in large Muslim communities. I'm not convinced many of them actually think the UK is a Muslim country, because there are still so many differences, even if you live near a Mosque and don't speak English.




I'm not sure what a few would be, and the question was inverted, so it's probably less than that.



Citation?



I'd go for understanding, rather than sympathetic. The UK is starting to feel very anti-foreign and I'm sure a lot of Muslim communities are aware of it. Survey I posted in the last link said that 46% felt that the UK was less tolerant of Muslims recently, and I can believe that.

presumably your views on the evidence in the Casey report haven't included actually reading it

Herzlos

£100 per year

CLAPTON wrote: »

presumably your views on the evidence in the Casey report haven't included actually reading it

Not all 199 pages, I've given it a skim though. Have you?

I'm not sure what you think I've said that doesn't agree with the report, it's all pretty common sense stuff.

Rich2808

gadgetmind wrote: »

EU citizens born outside the UK are now the lucky ones. Thanks Farage, you total tool.

Did you miss the other 17.4m people who voted leave bar Farage?

The EU has been far better for those other countries than us - without the UK who would fund their infrastructure, inefficient farmers, give their young unemployed jobs and tax credits and perhaps even free housing while paying huge sums into the EU for the privilege.

There is a big world out there and Europe's time is done.

Masomnia

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The West needs to become less tolerant of intolerant teachings.

Those who wish to follow the brand of Islam that teaches that a woman's testimony is worth half as much as a mans, or that women should cover up, that a man can take many wives, that non-believers are a sub-class of citizen, that in a secular "free speech" society they feel they should enjoy special privilege to not be offended, that honour killings are acceptable, that female genital mutilation is acceptable, that Sharia law should govern in the UK, etc... hold views which should not be acceptable in the UK. Understanding is not required, understanding is just another word for apathy on this particular topic. The brand of Islam that causes problems, like Muslim patrols, bombings, killings, rapes is a patriarchal method of government, they simply cannot have the separation of church and state. Turkey used to be secular, now look at it, they arrest secularists like they have committed a crime. According to that brand of Islam - they have!

It's not understanding that's required, it's a spine to say out loud what needs to be said.

If you were to emigrate to Japan (which is homogeneous in the high 90%'s) would you expect them to change the way they act, their laws and their culture to accommodate you? If they didn't, does that make them intolerant? So why in Europe do we issue women a code of conduct to avoid rape by migrants in Germany and Sweden? Shouldn't Europe be telling the migrants they need to act in a particular way in the West? What is the world coming to when this happens:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html

Crazy.

Agree with pretty much all of that. I would describe myself as pretty tolerant, and I'm not against immigration at all, but for example work had me near Wembley last week and I saw a man and woman walking down the street, woman a few steps behind the man. Honestly I don't want to live in a society that thinks that treating women as second class citizens is ok. I'd heard about it happening but not actually seen it before despite growing up in Oldham! If people can be offended at racism or sexism, then I think I'm allowed to be offended by that; it's not something I want to see in the UK.

wotsthat

£100 per year

Masomnia wrote: »

Agree with pretty much all of that. I would describe myself as pretty tolerant, and I'm not against immigration at all, but for example work had me near Wembley last week and I saw a man and woman walking down the street, woman a few steps behind the man. Honestly I don't want to live in a society that thinks that treating women as second class citizens is ok. I'd heard about it happening but not actually seen it before despite growing up in Oldham! If people can be offended at racism or sexism, then I think I'm allowed to be offended by that; it's not something I want to see in the UK.

You've got to be cynical though. A lot of people take offence simply to make a more general point about the non-native born.

The husband of the UK's head of state is required to walk three paces behind her. No-one bats an eyelid.

Nick_C

wotsthat wrote: »

The husband of the UK's head of state is required to walk three paces behind her. No-one bats an eyelid.

Yes but he is walking behind and showing deference to our Head of State, not his wife. Its a different issue.

wotsthat

£100 per year

Nick_C wrote: »

Yes but he is walking behind and showing deference to our Head of State, not his wife. Its a different issue.

What's the difference between listening to 'the man' who says the Queen should be deferred to and listening to another man who says anyone with testicles should be deferred to?