Broken drain pipe, Insurance claim

TranceNRG

Hi ladies and gents, I am after a bit of advice regarding my situation.

I own a ground floor garden flat in London and have joint building insurance with 1st floor flat owner.

I have been having some minor damp issues in my flat due to high ground level around the house so I arranged a landscaper gardener to remove the current patio, reduce the ground level and install a new patio plus do the garden. On Monday he rang me to inform that there was a blockage in the drains and the back of the garden was too soggy (possibly due to water/sewerage leaking in to the garden).

I have 2 manholes in my garden (one right next to the kitchen/bathroom and the other in the back of the garden, just before the shared drain in the alley way) that have been blocked 3 times this year. Due to the continual blockages, I arranged Dyno Rod to come and do a CCTV drain survey yesterday.

The guy found a few issues with the drainage. The bit that connects the 1st floor flat sewage to the main manhole (one next to my kitchen) had scale built up inside but the biggest problems were in the sewage pipe that runs under the garden which connects the 2 man holes - It was broken at a joint (the 2 pipes are not aligned) and there were cracks due to root intrusion.

The Dyno Rod guy told me that I wouldn't necessarily have to replace the sewage pipe and that they could add sleeve inside the pipe to create a new unbroken passage but he wouldn't tell me how much I could expect to pay.

As this is time critical (my landscape gardner can't carry on until the drainage issue is sorted), the guy said I could fill appoint a company called 'Public Loss Adjusters' to act on my behalf to speed things up. He gave me a form to sign but I told I had to talk to 1st floor flat owner.

I rang the loss adjusters for my building insurance (Adjusting associates LLP) today who told me that it's best if they dealt with the insurance company directly.

I haven't seen my insurance policy but am I likely to be covered under building insurance?
Should I go with insurance company's loss adjusters or the one recommended by Dyno Rod?
Is adding a sleeve a long term solution or should I try to replace the clay pipe?

Any other tips?

thanks in advance.

marksoton

Wow wow wow! Do not spend another penny.

The chances are Thames water have adopted the lateral and it'll be their responsibility to repair it.

TranceNRG

It's within the boundary of our property. I actually rang Thames Water on Monday when it was blocked 1st time this week and a guy came out and unblocked but he told me because it's not an issue with the shared drain, it's not their issue and they won't come to unblock in the future. I can't see why Thames water have to fix a drainage issue within our boundary?

marksoton

TranceNRG wrote: »

It's within the boundary of our property. I actually rang Thames Water on Monday when it was blocked 1st time this week and a guy came out and unblocked but he told me because it's not an issue with the shared drain, it's not their issue and they won't come to unblock in the future. I can't see why Thames water have to fix a drainage issue within our boundary?

He's talking rubbish.

Since 1st October 2011 water companies have adopted most laterals within their customers boundary.

And it is an issue with the shared drain. From your description the problem is downstream from where the two waste pipes connect.

Frankly he's talking rollocks.

TranceNRG

marksoton wrote: »

He's talking rubbish.

Since 1st October 2011 water companies have adopted most laterals within their customers boundary.

And it is an issue with the shared drain. From your description the problem is downstream from where the two waste pipes connect.

Frankly he's talking rollocks.

So the waste from 1st floor flat and my flat (Victorian period conversions) goes in to the 1st manhole and that connects to a 2nd manhole at the back of the garden still within the boundary. The problem is with the pipe that connects these 2 manholes.

I thought shared drain was the main drain pipe outside my garden (runs along the alley way) to which the neighbours drains connect?
Should I ring Thames Water and demand they come and fix it? Can I also make a claim for the money I paid to do the CCTV survey?

thanks.

marksoton

Ah right. That's a bit more complex then. Apologies.

If i were you i'd get Thames back out though and get clarity.

As for lining as a repair method, it's a perfectly acceptable method. But depending on pipe depth it may just be cheaper to dig down and repair locally. Cut out the busted section, put a new piece of pipe in and secure it with a couple of bandseal couplings.

G_M

Step 1: establish responsibility.
a) Thames Water (I don't know) but clarify/confirm this
b) the freeholder - read the lease!
c) the insurer. Check your policy as we can't read it from here! It may cover the dynorod CCTV cost (Trace leaks of underground services) and/or damage repair, or it may not.

Step 2
If you/freeholder paying, Get 3 quotes. Dynorod is likely to be expensive but it's good practice/sensible anyway.

Step 3
Discuss with upstairs (I'm guess you are joint freeholders?).
If using insurers, compare the excess (£100? £500?) against the total repair cost, and factor in likely future increases in premiums. It may not be worth claiming!

It can't be that urgent. It's been like that for a while. Yes, it needs sorting, but sort it sensiby, not by being pushed into signing a contract with a salesman on the day. He's on commission I'll bet.....

eddddy

If it ends up that you have to pay for the work, you should be able to find much cheaper drain companies.

Dyno-rod is owned by British Gas. They have a reputation for very high prices. But in London especially, there will be many cowboys, so choose carefully.


And it seems strange to suggest a loss adjuster for such a simple job.

However,

TranceNRG wrote: »

As this is time critical (my landscape gardner can't carry on until the drainage issue is sorted), the guy said I could fill appoint a company called 'Public Loss Adjusters' to act on my behalf to speed things up. He gave me a form to sign but I told I had to talk to 1st floor flat owner.

... that sounds very much like the guy was trying to earn a 'referral fee'.


It sounds like you are maybe being drawn into a world of "super-inflated prices because the insurance company will pay". But if the insurance company really does end up paying, maybe you're happy with that.

TranceNRG

I along with the 1st floor owner hold the freehold so repairs is not an issue. I've already explained the owner upstairs (it's rented out at the moment to tenants) the situation and he's willing to get it sorted.

I don't see a point getting Thames water out as they've already said, it's not their issue as the problem is within our boundary and everything I've read points to the same conclusion.

It's actually quite urgent. My landscape gardener is unable to do anymore work until this has been resolved. Yes the problem must have been there for a few years but we only noticed the garden at the back was very soggy since the landscape gardner removed the patio at hte back of the garde, cleared the weeds (it was overgrown) and tried to level the garden.

I have been in touch with both Dyno rod and the loss adjusters of the building insurance and informed them the urgency of the situation. Dyno rod promised to send the report out by Tuesday and loss adjusters could make a decision on repairs in a day so it looks like it's not going to take too long.

I haven't looked at the policy yet but will have a look. What I'm worried about is whether they'd decline on the basis that this problem was already there when we renewed the insurance policy in August (broker went with a new insurance company with this policy).

Edit - It doesn't bother me if Dyno Rod are more expensive because if insurancy pays, we'll only have to pay the £100 excess. Also I'm already a British gas customer and I trust them more than a lot of other cowboys out there. Any problems, I could always go back to them.

If this is fixed using Insurance, will our insurance premium go up next year?

eddddy

TranceNRG wrote: »

If this is fixed using Insurance, will our insurance premium go up next year?

Yes - almost certainly, and probably in following years as well.

Some insurers look at 3 years of claims history, and some look at 5 years.


(If you were looking for buildings insurance for a house, you could go to a comparison site to get quotes with and without a claim - to get an idea of the potential impact on premiums. But I'm not aware of any sites that give online quotes for freeholder block insurance. Maybe your broker can give you an indication.)


Edit to add...

But if your insurers have already instructed loss adjusters, they will have to pay them - even if you don't proceed any further. So the insurers may well record the payment to the loss adjusters as a claim anyway.

martinsurrey

marksoton wrote: »

Ah right. That's a bit more complex then. Apologies.

If i were you i'd get Thames back out though and get clarity.

As for lining as a repair method, it's a perfectly acceptable method. But depending on pipe depth it may just be cheaper to dig down and repair locally. Cut out the busted section, put a new piece of pipe in and secure it with a couple of bandseal couplings.

un fortunately I believe the utility fella is correct.

http://www.ccwater.org.uk/waterissues/currentkeywaterissues/privatesewersandlateraldrains/

for the purposes of drains, a block of flats is considered one connection, so all drains coming from a single block are the responsibility of the freeholders until they join with another source of drainage, or pass the boundary of the property.