Guidance Please

Tothepoint.

J_B wrote: »

Most builders merchants that I know of deal with many of their clients on a 'monthly account' basis.
Mr Builder goes in in November and buys stuff.
At the end of November, Mr Merchant sends him a bill for all that he has purchased during that month.
In the middle of December, he pays the merchant the monthly bill and life goes on in that way.

I wasn't aware of stuff happening in any other way to folks with an account.

You go to the same builders merchant and they'll want paying on the day. Retail customers won't get credit.

milleniumaire

Hintza wrote: »

Let us break this down, you ordered some stone knowing that the order would have to be imported by the seller.

That's correct, that's what the stone merchants do and this is the service they provide.

Hintza wrote: »

They have done their part and imported the stone for you.

No, the stone is still in transit and is due to arrive at the "docks" at the end of this month.

Hintza wrote: »

Now they want paid and will deliver the stone to you.

No, they want paying before having the stone collected from the docks and delivered to their yard[/QUOTE]

Hintza wrote: »

But you want them to store the stone free of charge until you are ready which I presume is months away. The company is at risk that you will go belly up or not complete the contract.

No idea where you got this assumption from, but it is not correct. We are happy to receive the stone as soon as it is available, in fact we were expecting it a couple of weeks ago based on their delivery estimate and so have had to rearrange our landscaper.

Hintza wrote: »

OP you are being unreasonable, pop down and see the stone and check it conforms to contract and pay the company.

In your opinion we are being unreasonable, I would say we are covering our backs, although I see a lot of people on this forum disagree, which is fine and is exactly why I posted this question, to get opinion. I am rather surprised at the aggressive responses of some people. As I've said already, there is currently NOTHING TO SEE, so we can't confirm "it conforms to contract".

Hintza wrote: »

If it was me I would also take delivery just to play safe.

Having the stone delivered promptly is not the issue here.

milleniumaire

This is now all sorted with the stone merchant. We have agreed to pay by credit card when the stone arrives at the docks and then pay the remaining 10% on delivery.

It's interesting that when I asked this question to my work colleagues, the 100% opinion (without any prompting from me) was that it should NOT be necessary to pay the full balance until the stone was delivered. And yet in this forum, the consensus seems to be that I am being unreasonable in expecting NOT to pay in full before receiving the goods!

I suspect some of the answers have come from people involved in retail and so it is their opinion that I, as a customer, are being fussy and unreasonable. Maybe you shouldn't be involved in retail with an attitude like this?

There have been a number of comparisons to paying in full for "normal" goods, whether this be at a builders merchants or elsewhere. I don't see the purchase of this stone as being "normal". The company I am purchasing the stone from sells a product which THEY source from overseas. It is risky for them to do this, but they have decided to do it anyway because they have good contacts/suppliers and they make money from doing it. As it stands, they want to push this risk onto me, the customer, which I don't believe is acceptable. If I wanted to take this risk I could attempt to source the stone myself from India and arrange for it to be transported and delivered. I may even save some money doing this. I choose not to do it because I don't have the contacts and I don't want to take the risk, so I'm paying the stone merchants to do this on my behalf.

If, for some reason I choose not to accept the stone and so I don't pay for it, they will sell it to another customer. They have told me that the delivery of stone will contain far more than I have ordered, some of which has been purchased for general sale. They have even ordered some larger cut slabs and other pieces that we expressed an interest in, but said they were too expensive, in the hope we might change our mind when they are delivered to their yard.

So, the import of stone for sale is NOT like your typical builders merchants selling you 10 fence panels or 2 tonne of sand, which you would expect to pay up front. We were asked to pay a deposit. Usually this only happens as part of a payment schedule or when full payment is due when the goods are available. There is a risk involved in importing goods, but the business should be taking these risks, not the customer.

My big mistake ordering from this company was to not confirm when the balance was due. As they asked for a deposit I assumed payment would be due on delivery.

lincroft1710

J_B wrote: »

Most builders merchants that I know of deal with many of their clients on a 'monthly account' basis.
Mr Builder goes in in November and buys stuff.
At the end of November, Mr Merchant sends him a bill for all that he has purchased during that month.
In the middle of December, he pays the merchant the monthly bill and life goes on in that way.

I wasn't aware of stuff happening in any other way to folks with an account.

I'm not a builder, therefore didn't have an account, my builder was from out of town and also didn't have an account. My builder gave me a list of what was needed, I went and bought/ordered the items.

Forgot to add that I was also getting a 20% discount on all items

lincroft1710

milleniumaire wrote: »

This is now all sorted with the stone merchant. We have agreed to pay by credit card when the stone arrives at the docks and then pay the remaining 10% on delivery.

As have said previously that seems very fair

It's interesting that when I asked this question to my work colleagues, the 100% opinion (without any prompting from me) was that it should NOT be necessary to pay the full balance until the stone was delivered. And yet in this forum, the consensus seems to be that I am being unreasonable in expecting NOT to pay in full before receiving the goods!

You've clearly never bought from Amazon, eBay or many, many online retailers! If MSERs thought the stone merchant was being unfair and unreasonable we would have all been agreeing with you.

I suspect some of the answers have come from people involved in retail and so it is their opinion that I, as a customer, are being fussy and unreasonable. Maybe you shouldn't be involved in retail with an attitude like this?

Uncalled for remark and I'm not and never have been involved in retail

There have been a number of comparisons to paying in full for "normal" goods, whether this be at a builders merchants or elsewhere. I don't see the purchase of this stone as being "normal".

The purchase of the stone may not be "normal" (although I don't see how it is "abnormal") but the principle is exactly the same

The company I am purchasing the stone from sells a product which THEY source from overseas. It is risky for them to do this, but they have decided to do it anyway because they have good contacts/suppliers and they make money from doing it. As it stands, they want to push this risk onto me, the customer, which I don't believe is acceptable. If I wanted to take this risk I could attempt to source the stone myself from India and arrange for it to be transported and delivered. I may even save some money doing this. I choose not to do it because I don't have the contacts and I don't want to take the risk, so I'm paying the stone merchants to do this on my behalf.

They asked you to pay for the goods when they arrived in the UK, so the stone merchant has already borne most of the risk

If, for some reason I choose not to accept the stone and so I don't pay for it, they will sell it to another customer. They have told me that the delivery of stone will contain far more than I have ordered, some of which has been purchased for general sale. They have even ordered some larger cut slabs and other pieces that we expressed an interest in, but said they were too expensive, in the hope we might change our mind when they are delivered to their yard.

So, the import of stone for sale is NOT like your typical builders merchants selling you 10 fence panels or 2 tonne of sand, which you would expect to pay up front. We were asked to pay a deposit. Usually this only happens as part of a payment schedule or when full payment is due when the goods are available. There is a risk involved in importing goods, but the business should be taking these risks, not the customer.

But as pointed out earlier the company has already taken most of the risk and my total spend with the builders' merchants was probably around £2K, maybe more

My big mistake ordering from this company was to not confirm when the balance was due. As they asked for a deposit I assumed payment would be due on delivery.

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[Deleted User]

milleniumaire wrote: »

It's interesting that when I asked this question to my work colleagues, the 100% opinion (without any prompting from me) was that it should NOT be necessary to pay the full balance until the stone was delivered.

You'd always expect that to be the response from work colleagues, rather than disinterested parties.

J_B

lincroft1710 wrote: »

I'm not a builder, therefore didn't have an account,

I'm not a builder, but have had an account with Travis Perkins 'in town' for around 10 years
It's quite handy to have when doing any 'project' for ourselves or one of our family.

[Deleted User]

J_B wrote: »

I'm not a builder, but have had an account with Travis Perkins 'in town' for around 10 years

Those credit facilities are, of course, historic and will have been granted during the "easy credit" boom. They are also subject to interest if not paid off each month.

Travis Perkins (along with similar retailers) do not easily offer such facilities to non-Trade professionals these days.

There is no Consumer Right to credit and Cash On Delivery is rather a thing of the past.

Hintza

milleniumaire wrote: »

I was contacted earlier this week and told the delivery of stone would be arriving at the docks later this month and once it was there we would need to pay the balance, before it was delivered to our home (via their yard!).

I misread this piece, I thought the stone was on their yard. In which casu you pay they deliver. My apologies.

In light of this I think you are being perfectly reasonable.

[Deleted User]

Hintza wrote: »

I misread this piece, I thought the stone was on their yard. In which casu you pay they deliver. My apologies.

In light of this I think you are being perfectly reasonable.

Why is the fact that it's currently at the docks (soon to be transferred to their yard prior to delivery) any different to it being in the yard at the moment?

Regardless, the retailer has already agreed to accept a payment of 90% prior to delivery and the OP seems to have accepted this despite his misgivings.

I still think it was unreasonable for the OP to assume that payment other than the deposit would not be required until the goods arrived at his home.