PCN in Poole, UK CPM, DRP Ltd, Gladstones, County Court Papers received

Coupon-mad

Brain$torm wrote: »

Okay, I'll check out the search facility.

Got a response from the DVLA; they said it was 'private land' and they don't get involved in civil actions etc..and referred me to the IPCs code of practice.

Show us the DVLA response, this is not about them getting involved in civil actions.

You were saying they issued your data to this company without 'reasonable cause' due to a predatory operation with no obvious signage = a trap, and against the Code of Practice re signage as well as being an unfair business practice.

Presumably you have now found the user 'hopsfield' and clicked on his name to read his thread, and found 'Gin and Milk' and read their thread.

I followed Bargepole's advice in filling in the N180 and have received a letter from the court saying that it's been transferred to the local court as requested by myself.

Be ready for the next stage - you will be told by your court, the date before which you must file your witness statement and documentary evidence on which you intend to rely. That is a VITAL stage and both hopsfield and 'Gin and Milk' are at that stage and have shown their Witness Statements, as has 'spaceman8' another username here.

Brain$torm

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Show us the DVLA response, this is not about them getting involved in civil actions.

You were saying they issued your data to this company without 'reasonable cause' due to a predatory operation with no obvious signage = a trap, and against the Code of Practice re signage as well as being an unfair business practice.

Presumably you have now found the user 'hopsfield' and clicked on his name to read his thread, and found 'Gin and Milk' and read their thread.

Be ready for the next stage - you will be told by your court, the date before which you must file your witness statement and documentary evidence on which you intend to rely. That is a VITAL stage and both hopsfield and 'Gin and Milk' are at that stage and have shown their Witness Statements, as has 'spaceman8' another username here.

I didn't mention the way the ticket was issued / trap. I only mentioned that it was on public land, controlled by the local authority.

Here is the DVLA response:

[FONT=&quot]'Thank you for your e-mail about[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]UK Car Park Management Ltd. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]While seeking to ensure that vehicle keeper data is released only in appropriate circumstances, it is not a matter for the Agency to decide on the merits of individual cases or to arbitrate in any civil disputes between motorists and private car park enforcement companies. The DVLA cannot regulate any aspect of a company’s business. Any representations should be made to the landowner or his agent. DVLA releases information on the basis that reasonable cause is demonstrated. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On conclusion of my investigation we have received confirmation that the area in question is private land, however if you have any evidence that this is not the case we can consider this further. Alternatively, you can raise your concerns with the ATA. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]DVLA requires private car parking operators to be members of a relevant ATA before providing vehicle keeper information. ATA membership helps to ensure parking companies (including trespass companies that pursue charges/damages) operate within a code of practice and it is clearly in everyone’s interest for the ATAs to make sure that its members comply with the code. But we know that operators do make errors, some of which represent shortfalls in compliance with their code of practice. DVLA takes such matters seriously and looks primarily to the ATA’s to monitor adherence to the code of practice and explore and address non-compliance when it arises. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The company in question,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]UK Car Park Management Ltd, is a member of the International Parking Community Ltd (IPC) which is an Accredited Trade Association (ATA) for the parking industry. The IPC’s code of practice is published on its website at www.theipc.info under the heading Accredited Operators Scheme. If a member of this AOS does not comply with the code of practice, it may be suspended or expelled, during which time no data will be provided to it by the DVLA. If you feel that any of the practices used by the company do not comply with the IPC’s code of practice, you may wish to contact the IPC at 4 The Stables, Red Cow Yard, Knutsford, WA16 6DG'


Here's my response to that:

[/FONT]
'Thankyou for your investigation and response, however, I must dispute that the forecourt is indeed 'private land.' The land may be 'owned,' but the local authority are the only body that have the right to issue tickets there

In Dawood vs Camden Council 2009, the judge ruled that Dawood owned the subsoil marked on the deeds, but the Tarmac surface above was subject to public access, and as there was no physical barrier between the road and the Tarmac strip, parking restrictions controlled by the council did apply. The same ruling was made in White v City of Westminster 2000.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6691961/Doctor-loses-court-battle-over-fines-for-parking-on-his-own-land.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8388077.stm

http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/PAVEMENTLIGHTSWhite-v-Westminster.pdf



Ashley Road is deemed a Public Highway under the Highways Act, including the forecourt in questions, as there is public access

I appreciate that the DVLA doesn't get involved in individual civil cases etc, however, I was assured that UKCPM Ltd are in breach of their DVLA KADOE contract and thus, I was referred to yourself.'


They responded with the following:

[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]'[/FONT]Thank you for your further email regarding this matter.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You state that you have been assured that UKCPM Ltd are breaching the KADOE contract, can you explain where this assurance has come from? Also, can you provide evidence that the council have stated that this specific section of land forms part of the highway?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]While DVLA will not become involved in disputes such as this, as this is a matter for the council and the courts to ultimately decide upon, I would suggest to both parties that they seek legal advice on the status of this land.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If evidence is provided that the land cannot be managed privately, DVLA can refuse requests for this land. The websites you have referred to, do not relate to this site and it does not appear that a precedent was set by the courts that this ruling would apply to all sites.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you have not done so already, you can also raise your concerns with the International Parking Community http://www.theipc.info/ who are the Accredited Trade Association for this company. They will then investigate the operations of this company for this site.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hope this helps to explain the Agency’s position and advises on what steps should now be taken.'[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

it does not appear that a precedent was set by the courts that this ruling would apply to all sites.

Errrrmmmm...this is the DVLA, telling you that pavement/forecourt parking on public highway, which is the remit of Councils, 'might not apply everywhere'! Jeez if anyone should know a bit about the TMA2004 then you would expect the DVLA to know!

Here is another one, from my patch, confirming that pavement and forecourts either side of public highway are enforced ONLY by Councils:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13719918.Business_owners_fined_for_parking_on_their_own_private_property/

You state that you have been assured that UKCPM Ltd are breaching the KADOE contract, can you explain where this assurance has come from?

From the internet - got a problem with that, DVLA?! And the links provided are to decisions by London Tribunals (previously PATAS) enforcing the law in areas of decriminalised traffic enforcement - like here. This is not private land and would need a boundary fence and or chain, to remove it from Council enforcement.

Then tell them about the predatory practices and the sign hidden on the bottom of a shop door!

Brain$torm

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Errrrmmmm...this is the DVLA, telling you that pavement/forecourt parking on public highway, which is the remit of Councils, 'might not apply everywhere'! Jeez if anyone should know a bit about the TMA2004 then you would expect the DVLA to know!

Here is another one, from my patch, confirming that pavement either side of public highway is enforced ONLY by Councils:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13719918.Business_owners_fined_for_parking_on_their_own_private_property/
From the internet - got a problem with that, DVLA?! And the links provided are to decisions by London Tribunals (previously PATAS) enforcing the law in areas of decriminalised traffic enforcement - like here. This is not private land and would need a boundary fence and or chain, to remove it from Council enforcement.

Then tell them about the predatory practices and the sign hidden on the bottom of a shop door!

Reply sent.

I've also sent them copies of the emails from the council.

I was pretty amazed by their response, bit of a head scratcher to be honest..........

Coupon-mad

If you have not done so already, you can also raise your concerns with the International Parking Community http://www.theipc.info/ who are the Accredited Trade Association for this company. They will then investigate the operations of this company for this site.

You can't just complain to the IPC though because they do not (as far as I know) provide an email address for the great unwashed public to use. You *can* report a concern/complain but to do so, you have to provide loads of data about yourself and state your position as regards the 'PCN' and they expect you to have complained to the damn parking firm first too.

And the IPC are the very people who run Gladstones solicitors, who sue ordinary motorists every day and the very people who support the despicable private parking industry. An utter conflict of interests if ever there was one, and not people you should have to complain to about scams carried out by their own fee-paying beloved member firms. Where do the DVLA reckon people get with such complaints, especially of the DVLA can't even work out that forecourts running either side of public highway are NOT private land unless demarcated by tarmac markings and/or fenced/chained off?

Why the heck would anyone hand over data to those controlling minds? But heck, the DVLA reckon you should, as well as them handing over your address data in the first place to the scummy firms who pay £2.50 a pop. I am astonished some people can sleep at night.

Brain$torm

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You can't just complain to the IPC though because they do not (as far as I know) provide an email address for the great unwashed public to use. You *can* report a concern/complain but to do so, you have to provide loads of data about yourself and state your position as regards the 'PCN' and they expect you to have complained to the damn parking firm first too.

And the IPC are the very people who run Gladstones solicitors, who sue ordinary motorists every day and the very people who support the despicable private parking industry. An utter conflict of interests if ever there was one, and not people you should have to complain to about scams carried out by their own fee-paying beloved member firms. Where do the DVLA reckon people get with such complaints, especially of the DVLA can't even work out that forecourts running either side of public highway are NOT private land unless demarcated by tarmac markings and/or fenced/chained off?

Why the heck would anyone hand over data to those controlling minds? But heck, the DVLA reckon you should, as well as them handing over your address data in the first place to the scummy firms who pay £2.50 a pop. I am astonished some people can sleep at night.

I totally agree with your sentiment! The whole industry makes my blood boil, it's absolutely disgusting!

You'd think the DVLA would administer some regulation on behalf of the public, but it seems they are just not interested.

I'll post their response..

Brain$torm

DVLA response:

[FONT=&quot]'Thank you for your further emails regarding this matter.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Firstly, I must mention that any alleged breaches of the IPC’s Code of Practice must be raised with the IPC themselves. DVLA expects the Accredited Trade Association to investigate any alleged breaches of the Code of Practice. Following these investigations, DVLA can take any appropriate action.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]With regards to the area in question, if this is under the local authorities remit to manage, DVLA would cease to provide data for this purpose. I would be grateful if you could obtain clarification from the council (or provide me with contact details within the council) that the section of land directly outside of this shop is within their remit. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]From reading the information below, it could be interpreted that the council is referring to the road itself and the pavement. DVLA would need a clear statement on this specific area before being able to take any action as DVLA has received notification that this is the shop owners land. I hope you can appreciate that this needs to be clarified.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your assistance with this.'


Seems like the evidence being presented is just falling on deaf ears!!

[FONT=&quot]Very frustrating!![/FONT]
[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

So they are making you go back to the Council - but I would certainly do so. The Council should be able to give you a map showing the boundary of enforcement in that road - send that pathetic email to the Council and ask. This is what you are trying to achieve:

''if this is under the local authorities remit to manage, DVLA would cease to provide data for this purpose.''

Go for the jugular and prove it.

Brain$torm

Coupon-mad wrote: »

So they are making you go back to the Council - but I would certainly do so. The Council should be able to give you a map showing the boundary of enforcement in that road - send that pathetic email to the Council and ask. This is what you are trying to achieve:

''if this is under the local authorities remit to manage, DVLA would cease to provide data for this purpose.''

Go for the jugular and prove it.

Email to council sent.

Brain$torm

I am slightly confused what my witness statement must include, do I just take the points from the statement of defence?

I have read hopsfield's thread.