Need help from any medical /legal experts regarding ESA fraud

steveactual

NeilCr wrote: »

I understand what you are saying but, just because this has happened to you, it doesn't mean that there are a lot of HCPs lying out there.

I don't believe that there are and I think this thread is in danger of extrapolating to suggest something that isn't the case

That's fine. Bare in mind that I started this thread looking for help with ESA and instead got a lot of defensive people trying to suggest I am somehow out of line for demanding justice. Unacceptable.


Anyway, I have the info I need so lets now see if any justice prevails or not.

nannytone_2

no one thinks you're wrong for wanting a fair WCA.

but you are falling just shirt of claiming that the HCP and the DWP are in cahoots to deny you benefit.

if you'd have sent your MR by recorded delivery ( recommended) you would have proof. i have had NO letters from DWP in the last 3 years. are they deliberately denying me information or is my local post cr"p?
as it stands you have no proof.

the HCP's report is an opinion. one you disagree with.

an opinion that you disagree with isn't fraud.

you are getting peoples backs up by trying to insinuate that the system has been set up to single you out.

if you hadn't noticed, a lot of people trying to help are actually people that work within the system.
you are doubting their integrity by the language you insist on using]

FBaby

Because you tried to suggest that his lies are just my opinion, and they are not.

I didn't suggest that, that's how you chose to interpret what I wrote. What I was trying to convey is that words, spoken or written are not always true or lies because most phrases are open to interpretation, just has you've interpreted mine wrongly.

A basic example is if I were to speak with some friends and they said that they were poor, but then found out that they earned £100k a year, that would be a lie, wouldn't it? Or would it, if I then discovered that they used to earn millions, and that losing their business, they owe £10M to creditors, and they are about to lose all their possessions and due to their credit score, won't be able to get another mortgage until they are in their 70s, then maybe I could see why they consider themselves poor.

Words are relative and open to interpretation depending on many factors. My point is that whereas it is obvious to you that the assessor lied, it is possible that they are able to to justify why they came up with their conclusion without having told intended lies.

steveactual

nannytone wrote: »

no one thinks you're wrong for wanting a fair WCA.

but you are falling just shirt of claiming that the HCP and the DWP are in cahoots to deny you benefit.

if you'd have sent your BR by recorded delivery ( recommended) you would have proof. i have had NO letters from DWP in the last 3 years. are they deliberately denying me information or is my local post cr"p?
as it stands you have no proof.

the HCP's report is an opinion. one you disagree with.

an opinion that you disagree with isn't fraud.

you are getting peoples backs up by trying to insinuate that the system has been set up to single you out.

if you hadn't noticed, a lot of people trying to help are actually people that work within the system.
you are doubting their integrity by the language you insist on using]

I agree that this thread has sort of got away with itself but you have to understand that certain peoples reaction's and insisting on defending this guy also got my back up.


If there are people here who work in that area then I would like them to answer a simple question;


Regardless of fraud, opinions and MR's etc ... If I am able to prove that the WCA report contains inaccurate information about my condition, then how, legally or ethically is it allowed to stand? Even if he hasn't made these inaccurate claims on purpose to screw me over, he has written things that are simply untrue. If you say, well the decision isn't by him but by the DWP, it is made using his recommendation based on things that aren't true.

NeilCr

You might want to read this thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5559529

nannytone_2

steveactual wrote: »

I agree that this thread has sort of got away with itself but you have to understand that certain peoples reaction's and insisting on defending this guy also got my back up.


If there are people here who work in that area then I would like them to answer a simple question;


Regardless of fraud, opinions and MR's etc ... If I am able to prove that the WCA report contains inaccurate information about my condition, then how, legally or ethically is it allowed to stand? Even if he hasn't made these inaccurate claims on purpose to screw me over, he has written things that are simply untrue. If you say, well the decision isn't by him but by the DWP, it is made using his recommendation based on things that aren't true.

i have no doubt that the report was inaccurate, but you have to realise that the HCP doesn't 'write it'
they have a series of statements that they have to decide are more or less likely to be the circumstances of the claimant.

there is no personal agenda going on.

you bear some of the responsibility for the missing MR, ( because you have no proof of receipt) yet you state that they have denied receiving it in order to deny you benefit.

so that could be considered a fraudulent statement by yourself because you have no proof?

the benefit system is a minefield, with hoops to jump through at every stage.
yes, its difficult when you are unwell, but thats the system. if you want to benefit from it, you have to play the game by their rules.

you do realise that you are seeking entrance into the WRAG and you will be expected to comply with work focused interviews and possible mandatory work experience and courses?

steveactual

Listen I understand you all make some good points and likely understand the system better than I do, I also appreciate that none of you actually KNOW whether what I'm saying is true or not, you're just reading it here. But try and appreciate that I was in the WCA Assessment, remember it perfectly, and the report itself doesn't remotely reflect that.


For example, when I said to him 'I have pain everyday', he has wrote that I have pain 'every few days'. Now, that to me is not an opinion. I've told him a fact and he's changed it. We must remember that in terms of being awarded points, there is a big difference between pain everyday and every few days. Obviously we cant prove what was said as it wasn't recorded but I know he's changed it so you have to understand why I am angry.


There many other examples such as when he writes I am able to walk 5 minutes to the shops which is untrue and he never even asked me that. How is that an opinion?


Either way, I have written my letter to the DWP, I haven't made any accusations outside of his report being 'incorrect' so lets see what the response is. I am pretty sure I'll get nowhere with it but I must at least try before going to my MP etc.

tazwhoever

OP - sad to hear you had unfair WCA. You should do what is necessary. Anyone can lie, whether you are in professional or unprofessional jobs.

dadtobe

Fact 1.

The HCP doesn't declare you fit for work the decision maker does. The DM use the ESA 50, your own medical evidence you provide or from your specialist and the report from the WCA to make a decision.

Fact 2. The report should tell the DM what you can do or what you can't do in relation to being able to work. It takes out the condition out of the equation and looks at what you might be able to do.

Fact 3. HCP's aren't bribed or paid to lie or give false information, if anything a factually incorrect report is far worse.

Fact 4. If its upheld it will be competence or lack of it's not fraud. Even then it could be a lack of training, they could be new etc etc.

It sounds like the DM has declared your fit for work because you are capable of working. What happened when they carried out the flexion test?you only have 120 degrees of flexion by the way in your hip (I have a medico/legal background)

You haven't actually mentioned in your account what happened when they carried out the physical examination.

FBaby

If I am able to prove that the WCA report contains inaccurate information about my condition, then how, legally or ethically is it allowed to stand?

It will not stand. There will be a reconciliation and if you can evidence that the assessment reached inaccurate conclusions, then it can be overturned, it's the whole point of it.

For example, when I said to him 'I have pain everyday', he has wrote that I have pain 'every few days'. Now, that to me is not an opinion. I've told him a fact and he's changed it.

I think there is another factor that you are missing. The report is not just stating what you've said. After all, if that was the case, what would be the point of the assessment? I could claim PIP and ESA, make up that I am in massive pain every day, can't get up until 1pm, can't go out on my own, can't walk further than my gate and then that would be it?

The assessment will of course take into account what you say, but a lot more too, and if what they see and read contradicts what you say, then they will most likely go by what they witnessed and what experts have written, some of which you might not forcibly fully understand due to the medical use of terms.