Need help from any medical /legal experts regarding ESA fraud

steveactual

xylophone wrote: »

There is a gigantic conspiracy against all those who need assessments or against you in particular?

There is plenty of evidence from many people to suggest a culture of lies and exaggerations is taking place within the WCA's. I cant discuss anyone else's case but having been a victim of an abhorrent excuse for a Nurse, I am able to talk about this matter. Anyone who doesn't believe HCP's lie has either never had a WCA or is an incredibly naive individual.

NeilCr

steveactual wrote: »

There is plenty of evidence from many people to suggest a culture of lies and exaggerations is taking place within the WCA's. I cant discuss anyone else's case but having been a victim of an abhorrent excuse for a Nurse, I am able to talk about this matter. Anyone who doesn't believe HCP's lie has either never had a WCA or is an incredibly naive individual.

I can only speak from my own experience

I deal with quite a lot of MRs and appeals relating from ESA and other benefits. I can honestly say that while clients are unhappy with the process/feel that they haven't been assessed or treated fairly I have yet to come across anyone who has stated or even hinted that the HCP has deliberately lied

That's not to say it doesn't happen. That would be naive - but I'd say it's very rare.

Tolly_T

And if you check the NMC process, you are going to find that despite your personal feelings on the matter, there is no way on earth they are going to launch an investigation into a single compliant or incident which falls significantly short of catastrophic - they are very clear on this point.

I would report this to the NMC. Lets say they've already had one complaint about this person that they haven't followed up. How many would they need to actually investigate someone? Yours might be the one that tips them into action. Yours might be the first and nothing will be done but the next person might get things moving because yours is already on record. If they need a pattern in order to investigate then people who have had a problem similar to yours during an assessment must report it in order to build that pattern.

It could just be incompetence. Maybe they assessed several people with bad hips that day and muddled one up with another. It might not be deliberate, but it causes problems for claimants and isn't acceptable. I wonder if the job itself alters the way nurses behave. On a ward, giving medication, reacting to observations etc. they are very aware of the impact any mistake might have on their patient. They will hopefully also have a sense of satisfaction in their work and the knowledge that they are helping their patient. That's a very different situation to assessing claimants. No treatment, no improvement, an assessment and a report and then on to the next claimant. If they make a mistake they're far enough removed to not consider the impact on the claimant. This might be enough for them to be concentrating less and make more errors than they would on a ward with adrenaline keeping them on the ball.

I'm not trying to excuse mistakes/lies, just pondering really. I don't believe many people go into nursing with the intention to do this sort of work, it's so far removed from what most people would think of nursing. Whatever the reason they've chosen to work in this area now, or maybe been forced to by their own circumstances, I expect a fair few of them aren't happy doing this job and that is likely to impact on the quality of their work. Not ideal, and again I'm not excusing them, I just think it could be happening.

steveactual

NeilCr wrote: »

I can only speak from my own experience

I deal with quite a lot of MRs and appeals relating from ESA and other benefits. I can honestly say that while clients are unhappy with the process/feel that they haven't been assessed or treated fairly I have yet to come across anyone who has stated or even hinted that the HCP has deliberately lied

That's not to say it doesn't happen. That would be naive - but I'd say it's very rare.

I'm sure most people who are turned down for ESA feel that the decision is unfair, my case isn't so much about the decision being wrong (of course I believe it is) its the fact that a WCA with so many inaccuracies was used to make it. The reason I believe he is lying is because I don't know how someone can make such huge errors in one report and it just being down to incompetence.

steveactual

Tolly_T wrote: »

I would report this to the NMC. Lets say they've already had one complaint about this person that they haven't followed up. How many would they need to actually investigate someone? Yours might be the one that tips them into action. Yours might be the first and nothing will be done but the next person might get things moving because yours is already on record. If they need a pattern in order to investigate then people who have had a problem similar to yours during an assessment must report it in order to build that pattern.

It could just be incompetence. Maybe they assessed several people with bad hips that day and muddled one up with another. It might not be deliberate, but it causes problems for claimants and isn't acceptable. I wonder if the job itself alters the way nurses behave. On a ward, giving medication, reacting to observations etc. they are very aware of the impact any mistake might have on their patient. They will hopefully also have a sense of satisfaction in their work and the knowledge that they are helping their patient. That's a very different situation to assessing claimants. No treatment, no improvement, an assessment and a report and then on to the next claimant. If they make a mistake they're far enough removed to not consider the impact on the claimant. This might be enough for them to be concentrating less and make more errors than they would on a ward with adrenaline keeping them on the ball.

I'm not trying to excuse mistakes/lies, just pondering really. I don't believe many people go into nursing with the intention to do this sort of work, it's so far removed from what most people would think of nursing. Whatever the reason they've chosen to work in this area now, or maybe been forced to by their own circumstances, I expect a fair few of them aren't happy doing this job and that is likely to impact on the quality of their work. Not ideal, and again I'm not excusing them, I just think it could be happening.

Yes I will eventually go to the NMC whatever because like you say, the complaint will be on record at least and I feel morally responsible to report someone who I believe isn't fit to be a Nurse.


I think the vast majority of nurses are very good at their jobs and understand that they have duty of care to the individual. The problem with nurses (and doctors) that become HCP's is that they leave that care and empathy at the door and are motivated only to prove the claimant is fit for work regardless of whether they actually are or not.


Lets consider this, would a HCP that looked at these cases from the claimants point of view and declared many people unfit for work last very long in the job? I don't believe so. They want to please their employers by declaring as many as possible fit for work.

nannytone_2

steveactual wrote: »

So nurses can get away with knowingly providing factually wrong medical evidence because they have a union behind them to protect them? The problem here is I think many replying to this post just think I am angry about the decision and looking for someone to blame when the reality is that I would have considered reporting him even if they reversed the decision and awarded me ESA because he knowingly provided false information about my condition and ethically he shouldn't be allowed to do that. He did this to me so its reasonable to assume he has done this to other people, many much more vulnerable than myself. Its abhorrent.


More people need to make a stand against this sort of nonsense or things will never change.

as i said previously, the ESA assessment is a box ticking exercise ... for the HCP as well as the claimant.

its very black and white, most answers are a yes or no situation.

so claiming the deliberately lied isn't clear from your perspective or theirs.

the report they send the DWP isn't an in depth finding of what was in front of them, but an indication of what boxes they can tick with 100% certainty.

before you start trying to roast someones backside and get them struck off for life you have to understand the constraints they are working with too

FBaby

With the greatest of respect, who are you to say HE didn't lie?

Ironically, by these few words, you are proving my point. The above statement IS a lie because I didn't write that the assessor didn't lie. What I said was that words could be opened to interpretation. You interpreted what I was trying to convey wrongly, so should I sue you for being a liar?

steveactual

nannytone wrote: »

as i said previously, the ESA assessment is a box ticking exercise ... for the HCP as well as the claimant.

its very black and white, most answers are a yes or no situation.

so claiming the deliberately lied isn't clear from your perspective or theirs.

the report they send the DWP isn't an in depth finding of what was in front of them, but an indication of what boxes they can tick with 100% certainty.

before you start trying to roast someones backside and get them struck off for life you have to understand the constraints they are working with too

Yes I understand what you are saying about the ESA process but you aren't understanding that this individual wrote a 23 page report most of which was hugely inaccurate. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but what he wrote about my condition was wildly untrue and none of it based on facts. It isn't my opinion against his, its his opinion against medical facts.

steveactual

FBaby wrote: »

Ironically, by these few words, you are proving my point. The above statement IS a lie because I didn't write that the assessor didn't lie. What I said was that words could be opened to interpretation. You interpreted what I was trying to convey wrongly, so should I sue you for being a liar?

Because you tried to suggest that his lies are just my opinion, and they are not. I KNOW this individual lied. I was there. He wrote things in his report that he didn't even ask me. He wrote things in that report that doesn't even begin to reflect my condition.


Damn right he's a liar.

NeilCr

steveactual wrote: »

I'm sure most people who are turned down for ESA feel that the decision is unfair, my case isn't so much about the decision being wrong (of course I believe it is) its the fact that a WCA with so many inaccuracies was used to make it. The reason I believe he is lying is because I don't know how someone can make such huge errors in one report and it just being down to incompetence.

I understand what you are saying but, just because this has happened to you, it doesn't mean that there are a lot of HCPs lying out there.

I don't believe that there are and I think this thread is in danger of extrapolating to suggest something that isn't the case