Idem Servicing

meanderr

Hi all,
I have been in debt for some time now owing to Mental health , and Physical disability. I have always maintained token repayments on both my loans (which were Lombard unsecured loans)...These loans have been passed around several companies over the years..Moorcroft..Arden ...And now Idem securities.

Earlier on this year I cca'd Idem for proof of them having copies of my original loan agreements..I was sent two copies of the same unreadable "original copies" of my loan agreements..Which I was told were the two copies of my original agreements..I have since found my original copies..And they were typed out forms...The copies I was sent..Are handwritten..With no signature on them...So are obviously fraudulent documents..I was later sent another copy of one of my loans..via recorded delivery..Which is a copy of my loan agreement and does contain my signature...But have never had anything genuine document wise to confirm anything about this second loan....And now..They are on the "softly softly approach...Requesting copies of medical documents (yet again) etc..And income and expenditure forms..I wrote to them months ago explaining that I would not be able to increase payments..And would not be sending them any sensitive medical information..Given that they have tried to present fraudulent documents to me..I Do not trust them with anything..I have just continued throughout..To maintain my payments each month...They say they want to work with me...They are underhanded liars..And have sent another letter telling me "what I must do"..Sending them copies of medical evidence...And income and expenditure...They know I am on DLA ..Something not given out easily..That should be evidence enough...My finances have remained unchanged since I sent them a income expenditure form a few years back..They are just working me for more money...Should I demand a deed of assignment for both loans..And also a proper original copy of the second loan..I have not divulged that I know the two agreement copies they sent me earlier this year are fraudulent...I just want to keep these parasites off my back....It's making me unwell..
Cheers,
Eddy.

EssexHebridean

There is something on the CCA thing about them being able to send you "reconstituted copies" I believe - but I'm not sure of the exact detail. Sourcrates will almost certainly be along in a bit and he'll know, I bet.

sourcrates

Hi eddy,

What year (approx) were your loans taken out ?

You cant get a copy of the deed of assignment, Only a court has a lawful right to see a Deed of Assignment, which is a list of a number of sale transactions, of which your debt is only one. What you want is a Notice of Assignment, which is proof from the creditor that they have sold the debt on, and which they should have sent to you.

The paperwork sent to you does not have to be the original exact piece of paper, they can send, what's called a "reconstituted copy", made up from information already Held on you.

The consumer credit act 1978 also states a copy of a credit agreement sent under a section 77/78 request must be legible to be valid, seems yours may fall down on that score.

There is no requirement for it to be signed though.

If your agreement pre-dates April 2007, then along with the agreement copy, you should of also received a copy of the "prescribed terms" applicable to the account, without those, from that time period, it's likely your agreement may be unenforceable, due to those errors.

But, proving unenforceability is a bit of a minefield, as the law can be quite complex.

meanderr

Hi there ..Thanks for the response.....To answer your questions...What year (approx) were your loans taken out ?..One in 2000 and one in 1998....

What you want is a Notice of Assignment, which is proof from the creditor that they have sold the debt on, and which they should have sent to you....I received letters each time my loan has been shifted from one company to another..

Would that be classed as the notice ..?

The paperwork sent to you does not have to be the original exact piece of paper, they can send, what's called a "reconstituted copy", made up from information already Held on you

....Didn't realise that...

The consumer credit act 1978 also states a copy of a credit agreement sent under a section 77/78 request must be legible to be valid, seems yours may fall down on that score...

It did on this attempt

There is no requirement for it to be signed though.

If your agreement pre-dates April 2007, then along with the agreement copy, you should of also received a copy of the "prescribed terms" applicable to the account, without those, from that time period, it's likely your agreement may be unenforceable, due to those errors..

Do you mean a copy of the "prescribed terms" applicable to the account should have been sent along with the CCA request..It was not....

But, proving unenforceability is a bit of a minefield, as the law can be quite complex.

sourcrates

meanderr wrote: »

Do you mean a copy of the "prescribed terms" applicable to the account should have been sent along with the CCA request

Yes that's correct, it should.

Any running credit agreement, credit card, loan etc, pre-April 2007 must include the prescribed terms as a part of the CCA response.

If they ain't there, then the agreement, along with the other errors you describe, would, most likely be unenforceable in court.

Obviously without seeing them, or someone else who knows there stuff seeing them, I can't say so 100%, as i said the law can be complex.

meanderr

Hi Sourcrates,

I have rooted out and looked at the copy of the credit agreement they sent me in the summer (which is genuine and has my signature on it ) ..And this one does have the attached consumer credit act 1974 photocopy paperwork with it....So it appears to be all in order...And is not something I dispute..I simply wanted to ensure they have a legal right to it......
In terms of the second loan ..They have not come up with a similar genuine signature copy or legible copy of the 1974 credit act to date...Despite me sending the CCA request in April this year....So I am suspicious as to if they have a legal right to collect on this account.....They seem intent on chasing me in the guise of pretending to help me...And as I mentioned ..They have sent me (in April) this Debt and Mental Health evidence form..Which is issued by the Money advice Liaison Group....Along with a income and expenditure statement form....My Son responded on my behalf to them ..See copy below..

RE: Debt and Mental Health Form.
You are clearly in breach of the MALG guidelines by sending this form for my Father to complete.
The guidelines clearly state (Section 7.2) “ THE DECISION TO COLLECT MEDICAL EVIDENCE SHOULD TAKE PLACE AFTER CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN HELD WITH A CUSTOMER ABOUT THEIR MENTAL HEALTH SITUATION..AND WHERE (A) UNANSWERED QUESTIONS, CONCERNS OR DOUBTS STILL REMAIN..OR (B) THE INDIVIDUALS SITUATION IS COMPLEX AND NEEDS FURTHER EXPLORATION / ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
Furthermore.
Section 7.3 States .”Effective evidence should be sought as early in the debt identification and Management process as possible...IN WRITING” (NOT SIXTEEN YEARS LATER)


My Father has throughout the entire period, (extending over many years) kept you and any other company this Debt has been sold on to...Fully informed about his condition..So there are no unanswered questions..And there should be no doubts or concerns with regard to his situation.


It is clear to me, that by not adhering to any guidelines produced in order to gather such very sensitive information. You are not a fit and proper organisation to be entrusted with such facts as you seem to wish to obtain...And indeed have not even attempted to explain why such sensitive information is required. In essence you are a debt collection Agency with no knowledge of complex
Mental Health issues.


It is for the reasons outlined above, no such information will be forthcoming. My Father has been subjected to endless scrutiny by the Department of work and pensions over the many years of his illness in order to obtain Disability Living Allowance. The very fact that he is in receipt of this Benefit should be evidence enough as to his condition and suffering . PTSD is a very distressing condition and my Father feels very stigmatised owing to his illness. Indeed the very receipt of this letter and Mental Health evidence form have only served to exacerbate his symptoms.


Throughout the many years of this protracted Debt my Father has always made payments on time and has never missed a payment.


With regard to his current finances ..The payments he makes every month cannot be increased at this time as he relies solely on Benefits and a small pension as outlined in the previous income and expenditure form sent to you in 2012.


Despite this letter...They have just resorted to the same tactics again sending me a similar "what I must do " letter..I am paying what I can afford ...Where do I stand legally...Can they take me to court ..Its just bullying tactics...They are pretending so seek information on my health..Despite having been informed about it many many times over the years...I have copies of every letter ever exchanged ..And can prove they are aware of my situation....Its just another tack to try and get more money...
Sorry about the length of this posting....
Eddy.

sourcrates

Right, well it appears you have a number of issues here.

It could be that your previous letters have just been addressed to the normal gene pool of post a DCA receives, hence the computer generated reply's you have been getting.

Make sure any future correspondence is clearly marked "COMPLAINT"
and address it for the attention of the compliance officer, if you still dont get a correct response, they are a part of Paragon Finance PLC, you could try complaining to them.

Unfortunately they could, if they chose to, take you to court, but, to be honest with you, that should not hold any fear for you, say they took you to court, and putting aside, for the moment, the dodgy credit agreement.

You dont normally, actually go to a court room, everything is done by post and online, for arguments sake, lets say you admit the debt, the court rules in there favor, you are required to fill in an income/expenditure form for the court, you would not be forced to pay more than you could afford, most likely just what your paying now.

So where is the benefit for IDEM ?, it would cost them money to take legal action, and after all was said and done, they would still be receiving the same payment, there is no benefit to them in doing this, although there would be for you, it would get them off your back.

Then there are your mental health problems to consider, the fact one agreement looks unenforceable, the agreement you would need legal advice on, have you contacted one of the debt charities, such as stepchange for help in dealing with IDEM ?

I think you should give them a call, and discuss a way forward here, taking into account all the factors involved, i would really recommend you do that first.

Website link below :

https://www.stepchange.org/?WT.srch=1&WT.mc_id=270049&WT.seg_1=stepchange&gclid=CNeH7vOvstACFUMTGwod4KsEjg

meanderr

Thanks for your advice Sourcrates...I think your probably right...I need help ..I will contact step change..
Regards,
Eddy...

meanderr

I have just been reading an article on Debtcamel which states if they(the lender) had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. I have told them since the onset of my illness, when I was admitted to Hospital ..Of my mental health problems...So how can this be the case...My debt has been sold (all within the paragon group companies ) endless times over the years.
Can anyone advise on this please...
This is what is says on Debt Camel....You won’t be asked to agree to the sale and you can’t object or stop the sale. (There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. Go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau if you would like help with this situation.)...

Thanks Eddy.

sourcrates

Debt camel is an excellent site for gathering information from.

You will find, that most of these rules on debt collection, are guidelines, rather than out and out laws.

The debt collection industry is also not very well regulated, the Financial conduct Authority is the regulator, there enforcement arm is the Financial ombudsman service, who deal with complaints about most things of a financial nature, including debt collectors.

Your own experience of these type of companies will tell you, they are not to be trusted, if you do complain about a debt collectors behavior, they just lie about it when challanged, either the call wasn't recorded, or the tape was wiped, or they deny the incident ever took place.

And for the majority of cases, with no evidence anything untoward took place, the complaints fail.

Your case, however, as you appear to of done the correct thing, and evidenced everything in writing, may be different, if you have written evidence you have informed them of your health problems, and they have ignored you, then thats a whole different ball game.

For a complaint to be valid, or to be counted as a complaint, it must have the word "COMPLAINT" emblazoned on it, i would attack them from all sides if i were you, bang in another complaint, give them the statutory 8 week response time, then pass it to the FOS to investigate, they have the power to fine companies, and/or award compensation for unfair treatment.

Keep the pressure up on them, and you will get somewhere.

redux

I helped someone dealing with this company. By coincidence this should at last be over in the next few days (settlement offer, cash arriving).

The firm likes to pride itself that it does things differently to other similar companies. To the customer/debtor this can seem very true, with them worse.

They seem to like blame-shifting excuses. We have a set of automatic standard letters. Ok, but make sure they are actually appropriate, or consider composing and programming one or two new ones to fit certain circumstances.

A letter that said you have failed to respond to our requests to contact us was a double lie, as there had been no such requests, and the customer had in fact rung them up a number of times (partly to try to discuss settlement offers, another very slow indeed but supposedly now improved process).

A complaint about that letter wasn't treated as a complaint to start with. It was referred first to the wrong department, who did nothing, despite the phone call explicitly starting with please connect me to your complaints department. Three reminders needed, and eventually the complaint was upheld, after 10 or 12 weeks.

They don't entertain settlement offers below 100%, they say to start with, as one or two people on another thread here were told. Another rampant untruth.

In your case, it sounds like your comments to them so far have been shrugged off or ignored, not properly processed by them as if they were complaints, as sourcrates already speculated, and as my acquaintance found more than once.

I agree with sourcrates that you write something that reduces their chances to play it down as not a formal complaint. It seems like they should review things and cut back on letters that seem to be automatic, too generic, and in your case really not appropriate to the circumstances.