UKPC Parking ticket in my own space - with a twist...

misteranonimous

Hello everyone.

I've taken the time to read the necessary threads on the forum before writing this post, so I am aware of the facts, but I cannot find a case similar to mine. So here goes...

I moved into a rented flat in July this year, which comes with 2 parking spaces. The parking is managed by UKPC. I was given two visitors' parking permits by my landlord via my letting agents to place on any vehicles which would be parked on my 2 spaces. Straightforward, right?

On August 13th 2016, my friend and I parked our 2 vehicles on these two spaces, and we displayed our visitors' parking permits clearly on our windscreens. The next morning, I discovered that UKPC had issued parking tickets on both vehicles at 4 AM in the morning! Our visitors' permits were still clearly displayed on the screen. In fact, the UKPC dude even took a picture of the permits as part of his "evidence" (shown in the images below). The reason for the tickets were given as "not displaying valid parking permits".

hxxp://imgur.com/2fn8CzR
hxxp://imgur.com/3Pfj42L

So thinking UKPC made a mistake, I immediately appealed the parking tickets. (In hindsight, I should probably have waited). In my appeal, I pointed out that both vehicles were displaying visitors' parking permits which they had issued to my landlord, who had subsequently passed on to me. I don't think I ever identified the drivers in the appeal.

A month later, UKPC responded to my appeal and asked to see the actual parking permits, which had arrived by this point. I took photos of the parking permits, and waited for them to cancel the tickets...

Another month later, UKPC responded with this: "Please rest assured that our Appeals Manager has personally reviewed your case and carefully considered the various points you raised. Their view, however, is that the Parking Charge has been correctly issued so it will not be waived." They did say that the charge would be reduced to £15 though, if paid within 35 days, and also issued a POPLA code.

Clearly, they did not address the validity of the visitors' parking permits. In response, I wrote them a letter asking them to re-examine my case and explain to me the validity of the visitors' parking permits. Essentially, one must assume that the visitors' parking permits were valid when they were given to my landlord. If they became invalid at some point, then surely they should have written to my landlord and informed him about this and provided alternative permits. Given that my landlord received no correspondence from UKPC about these visitors' parking permits, one can only come to the conclusion that they were still valid at the time when they were displayed on the vehicles. If they became invalid and we were not informed, then surely they have no grounds to issue tickets on our vehicles, as there was no intent on our part to break the terms and conditions of parking...

I have a few more days until the POPLA deadline, therefore I am now in the process of drafting my appeal. I have a fair good idea of what to write in the appeal from looking at all the other threads.

However, I want to clarify about the Notice to Keeper point. One of the cars belongs to myself, and the other my friend. During my initial appeal, I did not identify the drivers. But as I had appealed, a NtK was never delivered. Would I be able to use the NtK point in my defence? It's actually worth pointing out that my car is registered to my parent's address where I used to live before I moved out temporarily (but I have access to mail as I go back there every month or so). Therefore UKPC actually does not know both cars' registered addresses. The address given in the appeal is the rented flat, and I am due to move out of there shortly, lol. Is there a deadline for UKPC to get details from the DVLA? If there is and it has passed, in theory there is no way for UKPC to know the cars' actual registered addresses.

Anyway, I am planning using the following points in my POPLA appeal:

1. A compliant Notice to Keeper was never served - no Keeper Liability can apply.

2. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

3. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

4. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

5. The amount charged does not reflect your genuine pre-estimate of loss, as there is no charge to park on my own parking bays.

Any more points I could throw in there?

Thanks for taking the time to help me with this!

Henry

Redx

5) is dead and buried since Beavis lost 12 months ago

read this thread about common failures in court, as you can expect that its the same at popla

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5555458

notice what it tells you about gpeol and punitive charges etc

POFA2012 has a deadline , but the DVLA dont

pappa_golf

a common trick trying to "con" you with the lower figure when they have made a mistake

enclose photos from thier site showing permits in place and your own clear photos of the permits and tell POPLa that they refuse to cancel but have asked for a reduced rate of £15 ,,, why?

The_Deep

Include

Should this go to PoPLA or later to court I shall be seeking re-imbursement from you for the time I have spent on this matter at the court approved lip rate of £19.00 per hour.

I draw your attention to CPR27.14(2)(g).,

System

They did say that the charge would be reduced to £15 though

Pay the £15. If this goes to court, you may win but you'll likely get costs against you - £100 - as you failed to mitigate.

Once it is out of the way, then get onto trying to get UKPC out of clarifying the extent of your lease.

See this one. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=100610 / Post #74

The_Deep

Pay the £15. If this goes to court, you may win but you'll likely get costs against you - £100 - as you failed to mitigate.

Do you have any evidence in support of this rather disturbing statement? Surely, by refusing to pay £15, OP is mitigating his losses. Surely, he is not also required to mitigate the claimant's losses.

Once it is out of the way, then get onto trying to get UKPC out of clarifying the extent of your lease.

I do not understand this, why are UKPC clarifying the lease?

Fruitcake

What does your lease say about parking, and permits? If permits are not mentioned in your lease then you have an additional appeal point. Visit the Parking-Pankster's blogspot and look at the recent case where a judge found a defendant's lease trumped the parking company's Ts and Cs.
You should refer to that case in your appeal.

System

Do you have any evidence in support of this rather disturbing statement?

Have you read the posting immediately above yours? Case was only last week.

The_Deep

If you mean Delilah's thread, I have just read it. I have to say, I find the Judge's decision "strange". However, I formed the impression that Delilah was unlikely to have put up a robust defence. She seems to have done very little research and failed, imo, to play her cards to her best advantage.


Nor do I think that this one case supports your rather expansive statement to which I replied. Also, you have not explained your penultimate sentence, which, to me, does not make any sense.

System

I formed the impression that Delilah was unlikely to have put up a robust defence.

That's your problem - opinion. Haven't seen you put a defence or add to one given your self-proclaimed skills in the area.

Want to put up for the next one then and follow it through ensuring the OP has the "robust defence" they will get from you.

Two similar cases last week to this one - £1K and £2K for UKPC both with "robust" MSE defences.

The_Deep

Haven't seen you put a defence or add to one given your self-proclaimed skills in the area.

No, and you won't. I spent half of my life getting people out of scrapoes far worse that a piddling parking ticket, in conditions some of you could never imagine.

I see my role here as to offer morale support, and reign in some of the more imaginative barrack room lawyers.

Now, for the third time, what does this mean?

Once it is out of the way, then get onto trying to get UKPC out of clarifying the extent of your lease.