What to claim? ESA or IS?

Trevstanx

Hi there I live with my partner who is currently off sick from work and been claiming SSP for the last 17 weeks I can't work due to a disability... We currently get SSP,WTC,PIP,CA,HB/CT we have 10.5k savings also.

Our SSP/WTC entitlement ends in 11 weeks if she is unable to return to work so done a benefit check minus the SSP/WTC as I thought ESA be the benefit needed to claim it come up with this-:

Income Support £115.30
Housing Benefit £74.79
Council Tax Support £22.25

Total means-tested benefits £212.34
==============================
Carers Allowance £62.10
PIP £55.10

Total non means-tested benefits £117.20
===============================
Next to the Income Support amount it says -:

You may be eligible to claim Employment and Support Allowance instead of Income Support however we have calculated that the payable amount is greater for Income Support.

I removed my savings to see if that had affected anything and it says - Income Support £133.30 so I guess my savings have removed £1 in every £250 over £6000... And do they only take off the savings from the Income Support and not HB/CT?

Does this seem about right not to claim ESA and being better off on IS? And is this a couples rate of Income Support?Guessing they are addons due to the carers allowance?

Thanks x

TELLIT01

Receipt of Carers Allowance is the qualifier for Income Support in your case. Claiming IS will also mean there is no requirement for you partner to attend medical assessments. Assuming the calculations are correct, claiming IS would seem to be the better route initially.
However, if you partner is likely to be long term sick ESA would increase after the assessment phase. This might affect your thinking for the longer term.

Trevstanx

Hi thanks for the reply it's me that is in receipt of PIP and my partner claims CA but is on the sick from work and gets SSP but the situation would be the same.

I have Young Onset Parkinson's Disease was diagnosed in March (Big shock) which has affected the ability to use my right hand/arm (Dystonia) , so will be long term sick.

Would they a huge difference in amounts as not got to medicals would be great? However I read on the news that they are not doing repeat medicals for people that have a worsening condition I tried to post a link but it wouldn't let me since I am a new user.

I have also read that ii won't be paid NI conts? How could I know how much I'd get on ESA after the assessment phase? Would it be best for me to seek benefit advice? Also is the claim for IS over the phone?

Sorry for the loads of questions just the benefits system confuses me.

epitome

PIP is £55.10 so that is PIP DL std rate. ignoring the savings, because that would result in the same deduction for both benefits, and you know what the deduction would be.

Income Support Route, by the way, she can claim IS whilst on SSP (the SSP will just be deducted):
CA £62.10
IS 114.85, Disability Premium £45.95, Carer Premium £34.60 = £195.40

subtract the CA from the IS
your IS total is = £133.30

If SSP is less than £133.30 (remember to factor in the savings tariff i.e less than £115.30) then claim IS now. and backdate the IS claim 3 months.

Or ESA route:
You could claim ESA now (SSP will be deducted)
ESA = (114.85 + 34.60) - 62.10 = £87.35 initially,

After assessment, if you pass, from the 14th week (from when payments began), which in your case will be from the beginning of the 15th week of the claim

If you get WRAG
ESA = £87.35 + 29.05 = £116.40

If you get Support Group
ESA = £87.35 + 36.20 + 22.60 = £146.15

So you can see that Income Support is the better option in the short term, it also beats WRAG rate ESA, and even if you got Support Group ESA you would have lost out on 13 weeks the difference between IS and ESA basic
= £133.30 - £87.35 = £597.35

which at the difference between ESA SG and IS
146.15 - 133.30 = 12.85
597.35 /12.85 = 46.48 (i.e. it would be 46.5 weeks +13 weeks = 59 weeks of claiming ESA SG before you would start to be better off.

You could have the best of both worlds
She could claim IS...now
You could claim ESA C now
Your ESA C claim unlikely to pay you anything as I guess you have not worked since April 2013? So your ESA C will be £0.00 but you will be going through the assessment process, and if you did get the Support Group, she could close her IS, and you would apply for ESA IR to get the extra
£12.85 a week

Trevstanx

@epitome Thanks for that great detailed reply makes it a lot clearer.

Few more questions if you don't mind.

So if we claim IS now would my partner be the main claimant and I am on the claim?

Is the IS claim joint?

When making a claim for IS are the premiums automatically added?

Also will I get my NI credits paid?

And at the moment we get £21 WTC will that be included in the IS claim if we claimed now? If so we get £88.45 SSP + £21 WTC = £109.45 so take off that from £115.30 = £5.85 a week IS until SSP/WTC ends? Then inform them of SSP/WTC ended then they will recalculate it and get £115.30 due to savings.

So if I went down the ESA route it's a joint claim?

Also when claiming IS/ESA I know the savings affect it but do they also affect HB/CT at the same time or do they only take it in account of IS/ESA? Because at the moment they are having a small affect on our CT/HB claim and that would mean we would get more money from a IS claim if we claim now.

Regarding ESA CB I Started work November 2014 ended employment November 2015.

Leaning towards the IS route for ease and no medical even it means missing out on £12.85 per week.

Thanks.

TELLIT01

epitome wrote: »

If SSP is less than £133.30 (remember to factor in the savings tariff i.e less than £115.30) then claim IS now. and backdate the IS claim 3 months.

epitome, do you really mean SSP? SSP is a fixed payment of £88.45 if memory serves correctly.

epitome

Hi Tellit01. yes, I do mean SSP, I didn't know it is fixed at that amount, in which case she should claim IS now.

Hi Trevstanx, your questions, answered in respective order:
*She claims IS now and backdates the claim 3 months, it is her claim, not a joint claim, but it will include you as her partner, £114.85 is the couple rate.
The premiums are automatically added.

*Your NI credits are not currently being paid, and will not be paid on her IS claim. To get NI credits you will have to claim ESA Conts, yourself (not ESA Income Related if she is claiming IS), if you have worked and paid enough NI Contributions since April 2013, you may get an award of ESA Conts, but otherwise your ESA claim will be £0.00 and just NI credits. I am assuming you have not worked for a long time, so you will not get paid ESA Contributory.

*Yes WTC & SSP will come out of IS, your calaculations and assumption is correct.

So if I went down the ESA route it's a joint claim?

ESA IR in your name or hers will not be a joint claim it will belong to whomever is named as the claimant, the partner will just be named as the partner of the claimant, only the claimant will recieve NI Credits.

*The savings will definately affect the ESA(IR)/IS claims, as to whether you would get more HB as a result, you would have ask that on a seperate thread topic "Housing Benefit", as I don't know the answer, there are experts here on HB who will answer.

Regarding ESA CB I Started work November 2014 ended employment November 2015.

To be paid ESA conts (£73.10 assessment phase, £102.15 WRAG, £109.30 SG)
You would have to satisfy 2 conditions FCC & SCC, there are two Relevant Income Tax Years (RITYs)

FCC for one tax year
Must have worked at least 26 weeks at or above Lower Earnings Limit (LEL) for one of the 2 RITYs, This requires at least 26 weeks worked.
The FCC is relaxed (to include any tax year in your lifetime) if:

• you were entitled to Carer's Allowance in the last complete tax year immediately before the benefit year in which your Limited Capability for Work began
• you were in qualifying remunerative work and entitled to the disability element, or the severe disability element, of Working Tax Credit for at least two years immediately before the first day of your Limited Capability for Work began
• you are entitled to be credited with earnings or contributions following release from prison where a conviction is quashed, or would be if an application was made, in respect of any week in any tax year before the relevant benefit year
• you are entitled to be credited with earnings equal to the Lower Earnings Limit on the grounds that you are a spouse or civil partner of a member of Her Majesty's Forces and accompanied that member of Her Majesty's Forces on an assignment outside the UK or treated as such by the Secretary of State

If you think this could apply to you seek advice on your situation.

SCC for both tax years
Must have earned at least 50 times the LEL (on earnings that are at or above LEL, but not above UEL, i.e. the total of columns 1,2,3,& 4 on your P60) This does not require 50 weeks worked, it is the total of earnings that is the qualifier. Also Benefit NI Credits, from JSA, ESA, IS or CA goes towards the earnings total at the rate of 1 x LEL for each week of NI credit.

If you make a claim to ESA Conts now, RITYs used will be
13/14
14/15
If you don't qualify for payment you can ask DWP to look at your next RITY 15/16 in January 2017 (called the modification rule, RITY 14/15 must be satisfied for SCC, for this to stand a chance of working)

If you make a claim in 2017 RITYs used will be
14/15
15/16

Leaning towards the IS route for ease and no medical even it means missing out on £12.85 per week.

Ok, but it's your only route to get your NI credits paid, (unless you have children and you put the child benefit into your name). And you should read the ESA descritors if you do claim, having one arm out of action would not be enough as you have one good arm.

Thanks

No Problem

nannytone_2

regarding the housing benefit/council tax support part of the question.

savings will be taken into account when claiming wither income related ESA or Income Support.

as long as any amount of income related benefit is paid ( so even if it was only a pound or two) you would be entitled to full benefit for your circumstances

Trevstanx

@epitome Thank's I'll get my partner to make a IS claim ASAP.

Once the SSP/WTC expire on week 28 and if we are already in receipt of IS do we inform them of the drop in earnings?

I'll also apply for CB ESA also and like you said if I get put into the support group i'll get my partner to close to IS claim and change the CB ESA to IR ESA.

If I get CB ESA and entitled to an amount will it be removed for other benefits? i.e IS or can CB ESA be paid alongside the benefits my partner gets SSP,WTC,CA as it's CB?

If I change from CB ESA to IR ESA I am guessing I don't have to retake the medical?

I have had a read over the ESA descritors and seems I'd struggle to get any points.

Only these apply to me -:

Activity3: Reaching

Descriptor:
(a) Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket.
15 Points
(b) Cannot raise either arm to top of head as if to put on a hat.
9 Points
(c) Cannot raise either arm above head height as if to reach for something.
6 Points
(d) None of the above apply.
0 Points

Activity 4: Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms

Descriptor:
(a) Cannot pick up and move a 0.5 litre carton full of liquid.
15 Points
(b) Cannot pick up and move a one litre carton full of liquid
9 Points
(c) Cannot transfer a light but bulky object such as an empty cardboard box.
6 Points
(d) None of the above apply
0 points

Activity 5: Manual dexterity

Descriptor:
(a) Cannot either:
(i) press a button, such as a telephone keypad; or (ii) turn the pages of a book
with either hand.
15 Points
(b) Cannot pick up a £1 coin or equivalent with either hand.
15 Points
(c) Cannot use a pen or pencil to make a meaningful mark.
9 Points
(d) Cannot use a suitable keyboard or mouse.
9 Points
(e) None of the above apply.
0 Points

But if they focus on my left hand that I can use it then it'll be doubtful i'll get any points.

PIP seems more focused on help you need like cutting up food,making food,washing,getting dressed they should really be hand in hand as if I need help with those I am going to struggle to work and ofc with Parkinson's things get worse over the years.

@nannytone Thanks, seems to be a good idea to claim IS even tho on my calculation after savings come in to play it'll be just over £5 until the SSP/WTC run it's course.

epitome

Trevstanx wrote: »

@epitome Thank's I'll get my partner to make a IS claim ASAP.

She phones 08000 556688, choses new claim, then a claim for sickness, she tells them she is on SSP and wants to claim IS.

Once the SSP/WTC expire on week 28 and if we are already in receipt of IS do we inform them of the drop in earnings?

Yes, you will need the SSP1 from the employer, possibly the final payslip, and quite possibly a letter from WTC to confirm the end date.

I'll also apply for CB ESA also and like you said if I get put into the support group i'll get my partner to close to IS claim and change the CB ESA to IR ESA.

You phone 08000 556688 choose new claim option 1, and option 1 "claiming for sickness", You should backdate the claim 3 months, ask your doctor for a backdated sicknote for 3 months, if you can't get one backdated, send in the sicknote you do get, and phone ESA Enquiries or write a covering letter to say you will not be providing a backdated sicknote. You can give your sicknote to a jobcentre without an appointment and it will be sent by email, or if you post it, it will take 2 weeks to arrive.

If I get CB ESA and entitled to an amount will it be removed for other benefits? i.e IS or can CB ESA be paid alongside the benefits my partner gets SSP,WTC,CA as it's CB?

ESA Conts award will be removed from the IS award and will affect HB. All your/your partners other benefits will remain unaffected.

If I change from CB ESA to IR ESA I am guessing I don't have to retake the medical?

Correct, but you will have a scheduled reassessment within 3 months - 3 years.

I have had a read over the ESA descritors and seems I'd struggle to get any points.

That only leaves Regulation 29 or Regulation 35. Employment and Support Allowance Regulations (2008), If you are going to rely on one of these, a letter from your doctor supporting this would be a good idea.

Trevstanx

epitome wrote: »

She phones 08000 556688, choses new claim, then a claim for sickness, she tells them she is on SSP and wants to claim IS.

Does she need to inform them that she is receipt of CA and i'm in receipt of PIP? And is the claim completed over the phone or do they send out a form to complete?

I normally do all the phone calls as she isn't very good on the phone and normally gets me to speak on her behalf.

Btw thanks for the help I didn't have a clue what we could and couldn't claim.