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Is Hilary to blame or the Democrats for choosing her
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For reasons I don't quite understand, a lot of the US electorate are dead set against Hilary ...
The Clintons 'invented' triangulation which, of course, is what got that man Blair elected.
Would you vote for a party led by Cherie Booth?...- so many will have voted Trump as "at least he's not Hilary", with many others thinking they are equally bad - she's a toxic candidate and had a huge uphill struggle to even become neutral. So yeah, I think letting her run was a mistake.
Trouble is they didn't have much choice. Saunders would have lost be an even bigger margin.0 -
... So who should we blame for Trump winning?
Clinton ran a poor campaign. The Democrats seemed to think that all they had to do was portray Trump as a monster.
Project Fear has its limitation as we should know.Hilary won the popular vote. ...
The NYT has the popular vote count as 59,944,032 to 59,705,116 so there's not a lot in it. The thing is that Clinton won California by a margin of 2.5 million votes, and New York state by a similar margin, but all those extra votes don't make much difference.
You win a presidential election by winning states. Specifically, Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania if you are a Democrat....It was the rigged election system that chose Donald J Trump
It's basically the same election system as the one they had in 1788, and the one that elected Obama twice. It is what it is.0 -
The electorate had the choice of 2 poor candidates. Trump is an intelligent man he knew how to get his message across. Like our political system. Full of puppets these days. They went for change. If I was an average American I wouldn't blame them. After all what have you got to lose.
Next month it's the turn of the Italians. Those castles that the establishment have shut themseves away in are looking increasingly insecure. People power is on the march.0 -
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For the record my initial comment was satircal, since Trump claimed the election was rigged before he won it.47.7% / 47.5% (so far) I believe. That's the way the electoral system works over there. Reminds me of when Al Gore got more votes than Bush, but guess who ended up as president?
Maybe Al was too sincere and honest.Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.0 -
You are incredibly foolish for swallowing all the Russian propoganda. I suppose you don't think the Russians shot down MH17?TrickyTree83 wrote: »What I wrote isn't propaganda, it's how it happened.
I was travelling there even at the height of the conflict, it was and remains a topic I'm quite well versed in as it affects me and my family directly.
Whilst I agree the Russian Federation did violate the Budapest Memorandum it was due to the high concentration of Russian citizens as opposed to Ukrainian citizens who lived in the area who were at risk of being overrun by these militias.
I can forgive you for not knowing the actual situation in the country since the media here don't really report on what the "good guys" really look like, just Russia = bad, constantly. When there are neo-nazi militias overtaking your country after a coup and threatening to ban your language from the country, a fascist trait, you would probably rise up against that too. It didn't start out as a military conflict, the Ukrainian government, the puppet government, rolled into the east with military hardware. Only the far east of Ukraine picked up weapons to fight back against this being forced upon them. When it was evident that the separatists in the east would lose and be subjected to a crackdown Russia stepped in. I don't condone or support any of it, but it is a result of the Maidan coup which was orchestrated by the militias. The EU and the US are complicit in the orchestration of the Maidan and the creation of the government post-coup.
It has nothing to do with territory, and everything to do with the persecution of the people that live there. Testament to this fact is my anecdotal evidence of the militias now roaming around the cities in the south, large groups of young white men with shaved heads. Not in any official capacity or with any official power, a blind eye turned to their activities, a neo-nazi crackdown on the Russian speakers for fear they too might not want to be governed by EU and US puppets in a proxy fight with Russia over essentially nothing but ego.
If you fail to believe me about the neo-nazi connections, read up about the militias, Right Sector/Sektor in particular, and their beliefs on, you could say worship of, Stepan Bandera.
The chaos right now is entirely the fault of these militas and the people who supported them and aided them to take power. No one else, the Russian involvement was a reaction, not a provocation.
The internal problems of Ukraine were only made worse by the Russians starting their invasion/civil war.Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.0 -
You are incredibly foolish for swallowing all the Russian propoganda. I suppose you don't think the Russians shot down MH17?
The internal problems of Ukraine were only made worse by the Russians starting their invasion/civil war.
Regarding MH17 it probably was a Russian BUK, it was a disaster and it should never have happened, which it wouldn't have if the EU and US hadn't meddled in Ukrainian internal affairs.
You changing the topic to MH17 doesn't make me incorrect. So please address the points I'm making rather than creating one for me to answer back to.
I'm not incredibly foolish, I'm not swallowing Russian propaganda either. Nothing I've said came from Russian propaganda, it's from people on the ground. In Mykolaiv, Kherson, Odessa, Cherkassy and Kiev where I've met and spoken to people. Have you? I suppose you've probably not heard of some of those cities before I mentioned them.
Russia did not start a civil war in Ukraine, that much should be completely obvious to you. I've spelt out the events that led to Russian involvement.
As I said before I can forgive you for "swallowing" Western propaganda about this, it's hard not to. But please do not presume to lecture me on the affairs of a country unless you too have been there and spoken to the real citizens on the ground.0 -
The blame can only be put on the votersOwing on CC £00.00 :j
It's like shooting nerds in a barrel0 -
martinthebandit wrote: »Really?
He hides it really well
Trump is exceptionally clever (like him or loathe him).
During the campaign everybody seemed to think what Clinton said was smart & what he said was stupid. But what she said lost her the election. What he said won him the election.
So probably worth re-evaluating who was stupid.
He said whatever he thought would win him votes & it worked. What he'll actually do now he's in power is another matter.0 -
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