What is a reasonable gift

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Perhaps as a compromise, your mum could pay for something less expensive, such as shoes or tiara/veil, and you could wear some of her jewellery on the day? That way she is helping with your outfit and being a special part of the day, but not at the same level of cost/sentiment as a wedding dress.

gettingtheresometime

How much would you pay for a dress if you were paying yourself?

Malthusian

Check the guidance from the OPG.

The gift must be on a "customary occasion" (weddings are specifically given as an example), and must be a gift of the kind of value your mother gave when she had mental capacity. The gift must also not affect your mother's ability to meet her expenses, or leave her without enough money to last her lifetime. It must also reflect what it says in her Will. I don't see any reason to believe that any of these criteria aren't met.

However, as the gift is for your benefit, you will need to ask the Court of Protection for approval.

Does she have any other attorneys or are you the only one?

Has she given you gifts of similar value in the past? (Has she ever bought you a car, given you money for a house deposit, anything like that?)

hazyjo

A combination of the above responses I suppose, but I'd base it on what you'd feel comfortable saying the cost was if she didn't have Alzheimers.


I presume she'd have shopped with you, of you'd have told her the price. Only you (and/or your family) would know what you'd have been embarrassed or comfortable telling her it was...


If I were in your shoes, up to £800 I would consider okay for a wedding dress. Anything into four figures, I'd feel uncomfortable. My mum is extremely generous (just forked out £1,600 for my new boiler(!) and gives us a grand at Christmas!), but a grand on a dress you wear once and stick in the loft? Nah, I know it's not the average, and I'm sure something worth £2k would look nicer than something worth £500, but then something worth £10k would blow the £2k dress out of the water (and so on). It's all about getting it into perspective!!!!


Jx

ness3765

Thank you to you all for your replies. In answer to some questions.
My mum pays for her own care and has the finances to pay for the next 2 years before she would have to consider her property., so paying towards my dress would not affect her care needs.

Mum has been generous to all my family over the years, with paying for family holidays, paying towards my nieces car & bailing my brother out in a bad business deal.

My brother & sister do not have any power of attorney as my mother did not trust them to make the right choices for her, which did leave the relationship between the 3 of us quite difficult and once where I was close to my siblings they are now only civil to me. I do not want to open a can of worms by discussing this with them as it has taken 3 years for them to speak to me again. I would rather seek a little guidance first. My siblings are solvent, so would not feel that they would consider having gifts made to them. Would they object to my request, that I dont know.

If my mum had full capacity I know that she would want to contributed to far more than my wedding dress.

I will contact the Court of Protection to ask what they consider a reasonable gift, my experience from contacting them in the past is that they are non-committal but hopefully I will get better advice as it will be related to her money .

I have chosen my wedding dress and I would not seek for my mum to pay for it all, but I thought maybe half of the cost.

This has helped me , as it has been a tough one

DigForVictory

Every happiness in your marriage, midear & I'm so sorry that you have to shoulder these challenges at what should be a happy time. I can see your mother made the right choice for her, but it is a shame it's caused such divisiveness amongst the family.
May it still be a day looked on happily by all, and a long & happy marriage.

Malthusian

ness3765 wrote: »

Thank you to you all for your replies. In answer to some questions.
My mum pays for her own care and has the finances to pay for the next 2 years before she would have to consider her property., so paying towards my dress would not affect her care needs.

Mum has been generous to all my family over the years, with paying for family holidays, paying towards my nieces car & bailing my brother out in a bad business deal.

Definitely worth emphasising this to the Court of Protection as it sounds like you have a good case. I think it is also important that you start off by saying that your mother told you, unprompted, that she wanted to buy you a wedding dress and you're looking to fulfill her wishes. Obviously you can't prove it, but it starts your request off in the right way.

I do not want to open a can of worms by discussing this with them as it has taken 3 years for them to speak to me again.

I wouldn't mention it to your siblings at all, ever, unless asked a direct question. When your mother had capacity she didn't have to get your approval before she bailed your brother out, and she doesn't need your brother's approval to give you a wedding dress. Nothing has changed in that regard - it is your mother's decision, and you are the one with power of attorney.

I will contact the Court of Protection to ask what they consider a reasonable gift, my experience from contacting them in the past is that they are non-committal but hopefully I will get better advice as it will be related to her money .

They will have to be committal this time because the gift is for your benefit and therefore requires their approval.

Don't delay contacting them as they can be glacially slow sometimes. Hopefully you have a good few months before the wedding dress has to be bought.

Keep_pedalling

You do not have to apply to the CoP simply because the gift is to yourself, there is no difference in making a wedding gift to yourself or one of your siblings under the same circumstances.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457921/PGnote_2012_02_gifts.pdf

However I know this is difficult, I am my mother's sole POA and I do sort out everyone's christmas and birthday gifts for her family, except myself as it just feels to much like buying something for myself and my heart is just not in it.

In your case, you mother has considerable assets and so a reasonable gift is not exceding your authority, the problem is what is reasonable. You obviously have to show this on the accounts, but you certainly do not have to inform your siblings about this.

Keep_pedalling

From the document in the link I provided earlier.

The Mental Capacity Act prescribes that an attorney has no authority to make gifts
except in the following limited circumstances:


A Property & Financial Affairs LPA attorney may only make gifts on customary occasions.


Customary occasions are the occasion or anniversary of a birth, a marriage or the formation of a civil partnership, or any other occasion on which presents are customarily given within families or among friends or associates.


These gifts may be made to persons (including the attorney) who are related
to or connected with P.


Gifts may also be made to any charity to whom P made or might have been
expected to make gifts.


The value of each gift should not be unreasonable having regard to all the circumstances and, in particular, the size of P’s estate.

If for example your mother's net worth is over £150,000 then I don't think any reasonable person would consider a gift of £1,500 (<1%) would be unreasonable on the occasion of a wedding and it certainly could not be considered a deprivation of assets.

Primrose

I think the fact that you are having a moral debate with yourself over this shows you are not the kind of person who would want to act irresponsibly over the powers that you hold. If your mother promised to buy you the dress as her wedding present to you in earlier better times, I think you should take her at her word and buy something which you feel is in a reasonable price range. Good luck! It's hard having a parent in this situation and I hope it doesn't cast too much of a shadow on your wedding day.