Pre Paid Funeral Plan & Continuing Health Care

troubleinparadise

I agree, there seems to be no hard and fast rule in this situation.

An attorney can carry out actions that are never monitored, unless for some reason their particular situation falls under the scrutiny of the Office of the Public Guardian, Court Of Protection or Local Authority; as it is a civil matter, it very rarely gets legal attention.

Hopefully Attorneys do act in the best interests of the Donor rather than themselves, and that the trust invested in them by the Donor is honoured.

Brads_Savings

I have emailed the OPG for clarification and their thoughts on this and will post any reply.

Yorkshireman99

troubleinparadise wrote: »

I agree, there seems to be no hard and fast rule in this situation.

An attorney can carry out actions that are never monitored, unless for some reason their particular situation falls under the scrutiny of the Office of the Public Guardian, Court Of Protection or Local Authority; as it is a civil matter, it very rarely gets legal attention.

Hopefully Attorneys do act in the best interests of the Donor rather than themselves, and that the trust invested in them by the Donor is honoured.

Depending on the circumstances a breach of trust can be a criminal matter. Just because it may be undetected is no justification for the breach. The rules are reasonably clear inasmuch as the attorney does not have free reign as some people think, but always has to act solely for the benefit of the donor.

Brads_Savings

This was my email to the OPG :


Hello,

I hold LPA’s for both of my parents.


As their Attorney would I be in order to use their funds to purchase pre-paid funeral plans on their behalf? As funeral costs are rising year on year, I see it as a way of saving costs for the 2nd parent who is left behind after the 1st parent passes away.


I would appreciate the Office of Public Guardians thoughts and ruling on this please.

Many thanks




Today I received this reply:

Dear Joy Bradshaw
Thank you for your email dated 08/11/2016, the contents of which have been noted.

Yes it would be acceptable to purchase a prepaid Funeral Plan, as it would be deemed as acting in the donors best interests.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to call us on 0300 456 0300 or email the OPG at [EMAIL="customerservices@publicguardian.gsi.gov.uk"]customerservices@publicguardian.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]. Further information can also be found on GOV.UK at www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney and https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

Yorkshireman99

Brads_Savings wrote: »

This was my email to the OPG :


Hello,

I hold LPA’s for both of my parents.


As their Attorney would I be in order to use their funds to purchase pre-paid funeral plans on their behalf? As funeral costs are rising year on year, I see it as a way of saving costs for the 2nd parent who is left behind after the 1st parent passes away.


I would appreciate the Office of Public Guardians thoughts and ruling on this please.

Many thanks




Today I received this reply:

Dear Joy Bradshaw
Thank you for your email dated 08/11/2016, the contents of which have been noted.

Yes it would be acceptable to purchase a prepaid Funeral Plan, as it would be deemed as acting in the donors best interests.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to call us on 0300 456 0300 or email the OPG at [EMAIL="customerservices@publicguardian.gsi.gov.uk"]customerservices@publicguardian.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]. Further information can also be found on GOV.UK at www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney and https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

I am astonished! However, I wonder if the local authority might still regard it as deprivation of assets. Maybe you should ask about that as well.

Malthusian

Very cleverly worded.

If CHC was applied for now it would probably be looked on as deprivation of assets, but who knows what would happen if you applied for CHC in say two years' time and said the funeral plans were taken out as a prudent measure at the time to protect the other parent against rising funeral bills with no thought of CHC whatsoever. And here's the email correspondence with the OPG to prove it.

How difficult it is to get CHC varies from local authority to local authority so it is a deliberately grey area to start with, and advice on the Internet from people in a different local authority is of very little use. You either get some local expertise or cross your fingers.

The OPG's response is not that surprising. The OPG's job is to make sure attorneys are acting in donors' best interests and suchlike. Not to help out local authorities by stopping deprivation of assets. Many schemes aimed at bringing forward a successful application for CHC (I won't say successful deprivation of assets because it's a contradiction) do not leave the donor worse off than they would have been anyway, even if the application for CHC is unsuccessful. And this is one of them because if they did not have prepaid funeral plans the money would come out of their estate, leaving the survivor in exactly the same position. Assuming the donor was not intending to spend all his money and have a public health funeral it makes no difference to him whether he pays for his funeral before or after death. (Leaving aside the fact that funeral plans are often not great value in their own right - leave that to other threads.)

Not only is it of no inherent concern to the OPG whether the donor is getting money out of his bank account to bring himself under the CHC limit, but it could be argued that bringing forward the time at which CHC can be claimed is in the donor's best interests. Albeit this is the case of one hand of the state not knowing what the other is doing.

So I am not surprised the OPG is OK with it based on the case you put forward. A successful application for CHC is a whole different kettle of fish.

TW1234

CHC (Continuing Health Care) is a service provided & paid for by the NHS and is not means tested.There is no contribution portion--it is "all or nothing." It covers all nursing, personal care and residential accomodation costs. It can be provided by the NHS own services or by contract with a suitable provider.(It is not a function of the Local Authority.)
It is often provided in a nursing home setting by the same care own homers and their staff who also provide care services paid for by the Local Authority. These latter services are means tested and may be suplemented by (non-means tested) payments from the NHS for some nursing services.
Deprivation of assets will only become relevant if the Local Authority is required to fund care provision.
CHC is not readily granted and depends on the reason for need being a health based reason, and not a personal care or residential need. Most "nursing needs" can be provided without CHC by utilising the services of a nurse paid for by the NHS.