Pre Paid Funeral Plan & Continuing Health Care

Brads_Savings

Both of my parents are suffering from Dementia, I have LPA's for both of them. They having savings over £23,000 and own their own home which they are still living in.


Would it be an option to take out pre-paid funeral plans for both of them, this would reduce the amount of savings now but would not have to be paid out of the final £23,000 supposing that is all that is left, if over the next however many years they may have left if the house has to be sold etc to cover care home costs.


Thanks

Yorkshireman99

Brads_Savings wrote: »

Both of my parents are suffering from Dementia, I have LPA's for both of them. They having savings over £23,000 and own their own home which they are still living in.


Would it be an option to take out pre-paid funeral plans for both of them, this would reduce the amount of savings now but would not have to be paid out of the final £23,000 supposing that is all that is left, if over the next however many years they may have left if the house has to be sold etc to cover care home costs.


Thanks

It is very questionable if such a transaction comes within what is permitted by the LPOA. It would only benefit their heirs not themselves.

Brads_Savings

It is the heirs I am thinking about, well as an only daughter and sole heir ..... I suppose I am trying to protect what little inheritance will be left!


How would I go about finding out if it is legal?

troubleinparadise

Phone the OFfice of the Public Guardian to check with them whether it is viewed as an acceptable outlay.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

I cannot think that paying for their own funerals from their own funds can be regarded as deprivation of assets!

Ps - added following the last post:

The funeral is normally paid for from a deceased person's estate - people with dementia are not denied funerals, but equally their funds are for their own benefit. Should there be anything left over to form an inheritance that might be a pleasant bonus, but it's not a right...

Keep_pedalling

Brads_Savings wrote: »

It is the heirs I am thinking about, well as an only daughter and sole heir ..... I suppose I am trying to protect what little inheritance will be left

How would I go about finding out if it is legal?

You cannot take any action on behalf of anyone other than donors (your parents), so this is an absolute no no.

Yorkshireman99

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Phone the OFfice of the Public Guardian to check with them whether it is viewed as an acceptable outlay.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-public-guardian

I cannot think that paying for their own funerals from their own funds can be regarded as deprivation of assets!

Ps - added following the last post:

The funeral is normally paid for from a deceased person's estate - people with dementia are not denied funerals, but equally their funds are for their own benefit. Should there be anything left over to form an inheritance that might be a pleasant bonus, but it's not a right...

Deprivation of assets has no relevance in this context. The question is if paying for a funeral plan is a legitimate expense the attorney may pay for. Since it does not directly benefit the donor then it would not be an allowable payment and clear breach of trust by the attorney since the objective would be to benefit the potential heir.

troubleinparadise

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Deprivation of assets has no relevance in this context. The question is if paying for a funeral plan is a legitimate expense the attorney may pay for. Since it does not directly benefit the donor then it would not be an allowable payment and clear breach of trust by the attorney since the objective would be to benefit the potential heir.

Why would buying a funeral plan versus waiting to pay for a funeral once the person has died be viewed as a breach of trust?

If you read the Forum at the Alzheimer's Society website you will see that Attorneys often purchase funeral plans on behalf of their donors. No-one there has yet said that they have fallen foul of the OPG on this matter.

Do you have experience in this yourself, YM99?

boxedin

This pretty much covers it
https://www.saga.co.uk/money/life-insurance/nine-things-you-need-to-know-about-funeral-plans


I assume social services and the medical profession are fully aware of your parents condition and that they are receiving the support to allow them to stay in their home to which they are entitled.

Your local Alzheimers organisation branch can offer free advice also if you haven't spoken to them already.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/

Rather than prepaying for funeral arrangements what about spending some of their savings supplementing the care they will be entitled to from the state e.g. trips out, better food , holidays, music or art therapy, clothes

Yorkshireman99

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Why would buying a funeral plan versus waiting to pay for a funeral once the person has died be viewed as a breach of trust?

If you read the Forum at the Alzheimer's Society website you will see that Attorneys often purchase funeral plans on behalf of their donors. No-one there has yet said that they have fallen foul of the OPG on this matter.

Do you have experience in this yourself, YM99?

The LPOA rules only allows the attorney to make payments that directly benefit the donor. When I asked the OPG this specific question they stated that expenditure of this nature did were not permitted. Just because people may have got away with doing it is meaningless. In the OP's case the objective is in any case clearly an attempt at asset deprivation by a circuitous route.

troubleinparadise

How odd then that others who have asked the OPG about this because they act as attorneys for donors with dementia have been told that it is acceptable.

Previously you stated that this was not a question of asset deprivation, now you say it is. As in this instance neither donor is receiving care funding, and will not for some time given that they have the assets of a house and savings, it might be seen as sensible organisation of their affairs. Should LA funding come into play, there could be a lowering of the minimum threshold once it is reached to "repay" the amount, depending on the LA.

It appears then that there is no hard and fast rule, and that you get given one answer or another depending who you talk to, although you are the first person who has been told it is unacceptable.

My response to the OP was to ask the OPG - perhaps she might come back and tell us what response she got if she chooses to do that.

Yorkshireman99

troubleinparadise wrote: »

How odd then that others who have asked the OPG about this because they act as attorneys for donors with dementia have been told that it is acceptable.

Previously you stated that this was not a question of asset deprivation, now you say it is. As in this instance neither donor is receiving care funding, and will not for some time given that they have the assets of a house and savings, it might be seen as sensible organisation of their affairs. Should LA funding come into play, there could be a lowering of the minimum threshold once it is reached to "repay" the amount, depending on the LA.

It appears then that there is no hard and fast rule, and that you get given one answer or another depending who you talk to, although you are the first person who has been told it is unacceptable.

My response to the OP was to ask the OPG - perhaps she might come back and tell us what response she got if she chooses to do that.

The difficulty is that there does not seem to be a one size fits all answer. In fact two people can ask the OPG and get different answers. Likewise different councils apply the rules differently. In this case the OP has stated that the objective was to circumvent the rules on asset deprivation in a circuitous way. I doubt the OP is going to ask the OPG and tell them the purpose of the proposed transaction. We have no way of knowing what other people have asked the OPG or the answer they were given. It is pure speculation and in any case two sets of circumstances are seldom identical. From what I have seen and heard I am far from convinced that funeral plans are a worthwhile buy. They often seem to be sold by exploiting people's fear that they might be shamed in some way by the local authority paying for a public health funeral. The days of paupers funerals are long gone but the fear of them still persists.