Help with parking charge notice. Please.

Fruitcake

Umkomaas wrote: »

I think you need to start to recognise the fact that you aren't going to shake this off regardless of anything you argue. The PPC will inevitably reject your appeal, the IAS will almost inevitably reject your appeal and you then face the prospect of a series of powerless, impotent debt collector letters, or the possibility of getting a judge to decide your case if (and it's a big IF) this new-kid-on-the-block feels it has the capacity to undertake this.

So the advice is, send off initial appeal -as is, no attachments (to show you've initially engaged in the process), do not appeal to the IAS, ignore debt collectors, do not ignore court papers. They have 6 years to pursue this.

Sorry we can't wrap this up any sweeter, but hundreds of thousands are in the same boat and are ignoring things (short of court papers) with no detriment to their lives, save opening and filing debt collector letters.

None of this means you pay up, unless instructed by a judge.

I should add that people are ignoring things ONLY after sending the initial template. It should never be ignored outright. Always respond to an unfair parking charge as it will help you further down the line if necessary.

Carthesis

Fruitcake wrote: »

You tried to pay, but were unable to do that. It's called a Frustration of Contract. You can't be offered parking in exchange for payment if there is no method by which you can pay. You even tried to report the broken machine before you left the car park.

The parking employee new, or should have known the machine was unserviceable and therefore should have done something about it like stopping people from parking if there was no method of paying. By not doing that they have failed to mitigate their loss.

...

Otherwise add it in as already suggested, with the questions about why was parking allowed if there was an employee on site at the time who must have known the machine was busted.

That would be a difficult question for them to answer if asked in front of a judge.

This.

Hell, if there was an employee on-site who was slapping tickets on windscreens, what was to stop him/her/them standing at the entrance and *MANUALLY* collecting the £3.50 for a days parking (or whatever it was) from people as they drove in? They could have quite easily stood there, in the hi-vis jackets, and told people "The machine is out, so we're collecting by hand, but we're only accepting the fee for a full day's parking which is £xx" and if people didn't want to pay that much / park for that long, could have turned away.

No fuss. No bother.

As pointed out, they aren't bothered about actually managing the car park, as that won't bring them in as much revenue as issuing the tickets caused by their own failure to manage.

ShatteredDad

Ok, thanks for the replies. It's all a little clearer now. Last two questions for the time being, if I may. The registered keep of the vehicle is the drivers partner, so any correspondance will be sent from her as the keeper. But obviously the driver will be dealing with it in reality - on her behalf with permission of course. If the PPC tries court the driver would want to challenge in court too, but the partner would not. Will this be ok? As in, can the driver take responsibility at a later stage should the need arise?
And last question, can this affect anybodies credit record before it hits the court stage? Driver and partner are trying desperately to save for a house. And any black marks on credit records would not be welcome.
I realsie I probably sound a bit silly to you all. I really appreciate the

ShatteredDad

Oh I'd just also like to clarify that the car park is unmanned. Its only a very small one. Probably fits 20 cars or so. I think this company are responsible for a lot of the parking in the area and just have a few robbers, excuse me wardens, on patrol.


Ticket was only issued 45 minutes before I got back to the car ready to go home as well. Just to add to the frustration of the day.

Umkomaas

The RK will be the only one able to defend this. You can attend but cannot replace. Check out McKenzie Friend.

No black mark on credit rating - unless this goes to court, the case is lost, the judge orders costs against and you fail to pay these costs within a month. So no chance, if you play by the book.

Coupon-mad

The driver could take responsibility pre-court at LBCCC stage (NOT after court papers are served) but honestly, that's throwing away the very best appeal and defence point (apart from the frustration of contract/broken machine issue and dodgy signs, etc). A keeper is far better placed to defend a case than a driver because the POFA Schedule 4 protects them.

If it went to a hearing you could both go to court (the Defendant must attend) but you could both tell the Judge in advance that YOU would be speaking for the Defendant as their Lay Representative. So you'd have the best defence with the keeper sitting there with you but you would be the only one needing to speak.

Highly unlikely to go that far. Most small fry PPCs like this have no clue about court, or use Gladstones who also demonstrate no understanding...! Defendable!

ShatteredDad

Ok that's all fine. She'd come to court but she wouldn't speak. So as long as I could do speak on her behalf in court it's ok.


Cheers again. Kind of looking forward to this battle now

Fruitcake

ShatteredDad wrote: »

Ok, thanks for the replies. It's all a little clearer now. Last two questions for the time being, if I may. The registered keep of the vehicle is the drivers partner, so any correspondance will be sent from her as the keeper. But obviously the driver will be dealing with it in reality - on her behalf with permission of course. If the PPC tries court the driver would want to challenge in court too, but the partner would not. Will this be ok? As in, can the driver take responsibility at a later stage should the need arise?
And last question, can this affect anybodies credit record before it hits the court stage? Driver and partner are trying desperately to save for a house. And any black marks on credit records would not be welcome.
I realsie I probably sound a bit silly to you all. I really appreciate the

The keeper on the day in question (the person in charge of the car on that day ) sends the initial appeal if they wish. That is allowed and takes it away from the registered keeper. Alternatively it can be appealed by the registered keeper. It won't actually matter. Sometimes it is easier for the keeper on the day to appeal where the registered keeper doesn't have the ability to do this for whatever reason. If it gets to court, as long as the driver has not been identified, then it will be the registered keeper that has to deal with it so it might be better to help the registered keeper with the appeal process.
The idea however is to make a pre-emptive strike and hope the PPC forgets to send a NTK at all, which is a winning appeal point in court. That's why the template letter goes off before the deadline rather than wait for the NTK to arrive first.

You don't sound silly to me at all.
If you said you were going to pay, then I would think something different.

ShatteredDad wrote: »

Oh I'd just also like to clarify that the car park is unmanned. Its only a very small one. Probably fits 20 cars or so. I think this company are responsible for a lot of the parking in the area and just have a few robbers, excuse me wardens, on patrol.


Ticket was only issued 45 minutes before I got back to the car ready to go home as well. Just to add to the frustration of the day.

The fact that an employee was onsite means the car park was manned at some point. Having got there and found the machine was out of action, they should have stopped people parking at that moment, or made alternative payment arrangements, and stayed there. Thus you would have had an opportunity to pay for your parking and get the ticket cancelled on the spot because the attendant would have been honour bound to still be there because they would have known, or should have known there was a problem.

Since they failed to do this, they failed to mitigate their loss. The attendant could even have written a note saying, machine out of order, DO NOT PARK.

ShatteredDad

Thanks fruitcake. You've generated more questions though Im afraid. Can the driver identify themselves as the keeper on the day, without actually identifying themselves as the driver? Hope that makes sense.


And would the keeper on the day not need to be legally connected to the vehicle? Or could it be a case of, I lent the car off the owner, but somebody else was driving me around?


Sorry, I may be adding confusion here but I need to know the ins and outs for the sake of being confident in what I do.

ShatteredDad

I feel like if i appeal and name myself as the keeper on the day, but not the driver (even though I was the keeper and the driver), it will blow up in my face at some point.


My head is now in pain haha