Care home fees for self funders

AylesburyDuck

Person_one wrote: »

Diagnosis is more or less irrelevant actually, its based on an assessment of the person's needs and whether they are medical or social.

But in the case of dementia a good starting point to avoid all ambiguity (sp) is a diagnosis.
All i'm saying is, is that with a good diagnosis it takes care of many of the factors that can be left to someones judgement on the day.
You many have seen it work another way, which is fine also.
But fact reminds, Dementia is included in NHS continuity of care and mainly the cognition and communication parts of the assesment is the main trigger.
I'm not sure why your wanting to argue :huh:

Robinette

Mum qualified for CHC when she was first admitted to a care home, mainly as the result of being violent and unpredictable. She has just been reassessed and despite now being immobile, incontinent, unable to speak and indeed unable to do anything for herself, she no longer qualifies.

The fees are now £300 per week more than the NHS were paying; however, she does get FNC (funded nursing care) and AA (attendance allowance), which softens the blow a little.

Person_one

AylesburyDuck wrote: »

But in the case of dementia a good starting point to avoid all ambiguity (sp) is a diagnosis.
All i'm saying is, is that with a good diagnosis it takes care of many of the factors that can be left to someones judgement on the day.
You many have seen it work another way, which is fine also.
But fact reminds, Dementia is included in NHS continuity of care and mainly the cognition and communication parts of the assesment is the main trigger.
I'm not sure why your wanting to argue :huh:

If somebody has dementia then yes of course a diagnosis is very helpful!

A diagnosis of dementia won't make any difference in a CHC application though and I'm 'arguing' because I wouldn't want anybody to wrongly think it will. Its the actual health and care needs that matter, not the underlying reason for them.

AylesburyDuck

Person_one wrote: »

If somebody has dementia then yes of course a diagnosis is very helpful!

A diagnosis of dementia won't make any difference in a CHC application though and I'm 'arguing' because I wouldn't want anybody to wrongly think it will. Its the actual health and care needs that matter, not the underlying reason for them.

Ok lets do it your way,
Say a dementia patient hasnt got an official diagnosis
.............................................

dementia
dɪˈmɛnʃə/Submit
nounMEDICINE
a chronic or persistent disorder of the mental processes caused by brain disease or injury and marked by memory disorders, personality changes, and impaired reasoning.
synonyms: mental illness, madness, insanity, derangement, lunacy; More
...........................................................
And using this link for the basic categorys of the assessment

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/pages/nhs-continuing-care.aspx

..........................................................

For balance i'll also show that yes many people are discriminated against and dont get what they should

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=1321

..........................................................

But given all the above, im sorry, i still think your wrong, people just need to fight for whats theirs, i didnt say it would be easy, just that it should be availabe.

AylesburyDuck

I'll also add that clearly we either dont see each others point of view or maybe we misunderstand each other.
And thats fine.
I'm happy with what i've said, you'll be happy with your as well, so i would urge anybody to obviously do their own research on the matter. But fight hard for your rights, and it always helps to get Nursing home/care home managers on side and on the same page as you.

troubleinparadise

Whilst logically most people might think that a diagnosis of Dementia, of whatever type, should qualify a person for CHC, sadly it doesn't.

Go to the Alzheimer's Society forum to read how many people try very hard to get funding for the person they care for to receive CHC whether at home or in a care home setting. And don't get awarded it. Or have it withdrawn because in the regular assessments the PWD (person with dementia) no longer meets the requirements.

You can argue all you like - that's what is happening. And it's not for the lack of trying on behalf of the carer - or fighting, in your terminology. And that's a "fight" that has to be done usually by someone who is on their knees with the stress and exhaustion of caring for a PWD, against "the system". Please don't suggest not receiving CHC is a failing on that carer's part.

AylesburyDuck

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Whilst logically most people might think that a diagnosis of Dementia, of whatever type, should qualify a person for CHC, sadly it doesn't.

Go to the Alzheimer's Society forum to read how many people try very hard to get funding for the person they care for to receive CHC whether at home or in a care home setting. And don't get awarded it. Or have it withdrawn because in the regular assessments the PWD (person with dementia) no longer meets the requirements.

You can argue all you like - that's what is happening. And it's not for the lack of trying on behalf of the carer - or fighting, in your terminology. And that's a "fight" that has to be done usually by someone who is on their knees with the stress and exhaustion of caring for a PWD, against "the system". Please don't suggest not receiving CHC is a failing on that carer's part.

I did put that link for balance, im aware.
And i in no way suggested (and most certainly wouldnt) suggest that carers were failing people.
Not meant, and sorry if it seemed it was implyed.:o

mad_spaniel

Ive just been through the CHC assessment with my Mum. I attended the first session with the nurse assessor, the care home manager and a social worker. Mum was very fairly assessed for CHC funding from 15/8/16 to 19/10/16. They then sent me a copy of their decision tool and said I could appeal if I wanted against the withdrawal of funding from 19/10/16. I went through their rationale and paperwork (the decision support tool) and to be honest I agree with them at this point in time. Mum has dementia and paranoid schizophrenia. She was a handful when she first was admitted but has got acclimatised to the home now, so her needs are less acute. You can always appeal a recent decision (within 6 months) or ask for funding to be looked at again, but I would suggest you do this with the decision support tool at your side and attend all meetings.

troubleinparadise

AylesburyDuck wrote: »

I did put that link for balance, im aware.
And i in no way suggested (and most certainly wouldnt) suggest that carers were failing people.
Not meant, and sorry if it seemed it was implyed.:o

Thanks for your response; it's an issue I'm sensitive about, having been there and got the t-shirt, but not the CHC funding...

But if you feel you have a good argument that would succeed, and I'm not questioning that, there are many people on that forum who would love to know how to achieve it!

AylesburyDuck

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Thanks for your response; it's an issue I'm sensitive about, having been there and got the t-shirt, but not the CHC funding...

But if you feel you have a good argument that would succeed, and I'm not questioning that, there are many people on that forum who would love to know how to achieve it!

Not surprised your sensitive, must admit i have had my eyes opened slightly more today, the discrimination is appalling and does need addressing, im actually not sure how they get away with it given their own criteria.:eek: